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Original poster

urgent advice please

44 replies

nothercules · 05/04/2006 23:05

We recently got a leonberger which is basically an extra large dog. He is 13 months old.

We carefully researched the breed before hand and knew what we were getting.

However, my mil has moved in with us last week unexpectedly and is scared of the dog. He is a typical male going through adolescence and is trying to dominate her and my own mother - he does this by not allowing them to carry my 21/2 year old daughter especially if she is cying. THe trouble is I go back to work after Easter and will have to leave my mum and mil at home with my daughter.

I've had long chats with various experts and have been told he will dominate if he is allowed to and it will get worse.

I really cant see that they will be able to deal with this and it isnt fair that they should either. They are both nearly 70.

However, we took him on and I feel obliged as he was already a rescue dog that it is unfair on him to then hand him back to the original breeders. I know this will probably affect his tempermant etc.

My kids and husband and I are attached to him and I know they will find it really difficult to make a decision.

Any advice or thoughts.

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Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 09:26

yes, we are getting him castrated but have been told it can take up to 5 months to see a benefit.

I think he is used to a crate as he came with one. We know very little about his background.

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Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 09:27

I am going to keep him as it must be doable.

The problem isnt my dh but our mothers. We can help them when we are here but they'll be on their own with him 4 days a week.

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Rach69 · 06/04/2006 09:29

Try him in the crate for a few minutes at a time - don't use it as a punishment, put something soft in there and some food and don't close the door initially, try and get him in there voluntarily. Sorry i have to go but will try and look up some books for you. BTW i have seen 'dog experts' do this with an aggressive alsation on TV - he was a big dog but it did work - they also had a bitch smell diffuser...!

Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 09:31

That's the problem. Should he go in as part of a punishment or try to get him in as soon as he shows signs of excitement.

Bless him, he's asleep next to me.

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MamaG · 06/04/2006 09:32

Well done for doing everything you can, it's a very hard decision but it sounds like you are really trying hard. Your mothers really need to get involved in the training, otherwise all your hard work will be undone when they "bow down" to him.

We moved from Leeds to Cumbria in August 2004 with our (then) 14 month old labrador. He went from being a happy dog who howled when left alone and peed on the floor everytime we walked into a room! He wouldn't go the loo in the yard, which meant 4-5 long walks every day and as my DS was only 5 months at the time, it really took it out of us. We tried lots of things, but it all seemed hopeless and we found a new home for him. We decided to have "one last go" and by being really patient with him, ignoring him when we came in so he didn't pee etc, he turned himself around and is now fine.

There is hope! :)

MamaG · 06/04/2006 09:33

meant - from being a happy dog to one who...

MamaG · 06/04/2006 09:35

He's still a puppy really isn't he at that age? Bless him. Rach's advice about the crate is good - combine that with rigorous training, castration and hopefully it'll come good. I REALLY hope this works out for you.

CountessDracula · 06/04/2006 09:47

You need to get him to the bottom of the pack. there are a number of ways to do this, you have to understand the psychology of a dog! They will often try and dominate as their natural instinct is to protect the rest of the pack. However what a lot of them really want is to be looked after so once they are relegated successfully to the bottom of the pack they become much more relaxed and docile

Ways to achieve this

Pointedly feed them after everyone else esp those they are seeking to dominate ie you parents. In a pack of dogs, the Alpha eats first then the next then the next.

Don't put up with ANY dominant behaviour. If the dog is dominating then shout in a DEEP GROWLY VOICE and shut out in the garden or in a room on its own for 5 mins.

Get your parents to hold themselves tall and talk in deep growly voices and sound like they mean what they say. Not nasty, just deep and growly.

Make the dog wait when going through the front door or internal doors for you to go first.

Socialise the dog as much as possible, if at all possible with older dogs. They will tick it off by growling at it if it is trying to be dominant.

There is a technique called a dominant down. Only to be used as a real last resort, don't try this without talking to the breeder or someone first! I am not suggesting that your parents try this! If they are being dominant espcially agressively so eg growling when you try and kick them off the sofa, you knock them over and jump on top of them being growly and cross. They will struggle like mad, just hold yourself on top of them til they stop struggling and then stay there for 5 minutes after they have stopped. It would be good for you to see it demonstrated first. It may take two of you at the beginning.

Do call the breeder or breed association they may have suggestions.

More useful stuff \link{http://www.inch.com/~dogs/taming.html\here}

CountessDracula · 06/04/2006 09:50

ps Crate Training is not a form of punishment. Don't use it as such or he will never want to go in there! It is used so that you have a safe place to leave your dog when you are out if they are a chewer and could harm themselves by for eg chewing though wires.

Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 10:47

thanks for further replies.

I have no problem implementing all the correct methods but there is no way my mil will be able to do this. SHe wont even contemplate being left in the house with my dd and the dog alone never mind anything else.

Just had a long chat with the breeder too. I am going to try another expert on leos for advice.

This morning he tried mouthing me and was very persistent when I was carrying dd who was crying. I was able to stop him and take control but my mil saw it and said she would never be able to do the same and i believe her.

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CountessDracula · 06/04/2006 10:59

hang on

She moved in with you unexpectedly?

At your behest?

Can they not look after your dd at their houses until your dog is trained?

shimmy21 · 06/04/2006 11:08

You can do it!!

but I think for your MIL's sake you need to organise temporary outside arrangements while you are at work until he is trained and MIl is more confident. A heated kennel, garden shed or garage outside with a run for him only while MIL is alone in the house as a temporary measure will hurt him less than being rehomed.

Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 11:28

My mum lives in sheltered housing and my mil is from sri lanka and is unable to go back there for safety reasons.

She has told me she has been praying to God that we get rid of the dog as she is so afraid.

It's not about us training him but she has to able to do this and due to her circumstances this is asking too much.

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Original poster

nothercules · 06/04/2006 11:37

My mum lives in sheltered housing and my mil is from sri lanka and is unable to go back there for safety reasons.

She has told me she has been praying to God that we get rid of the dog as she is so afraid.

It's not about us training him but she has to able to do this and due to her circumstances this is asking too much.

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horseshoe · 07/04/2006 23:12

Oh what a predicament!!

I know that if my husband had a choice between the MIL and the dog he would choose the dog everytime and yet he hates it!!

Seriously though I think you will really need to think about removing the dog. If your MIL is set to be around and she is scared of the dog that much than there is little you can do to improve their relationship. She would need to take the upper hand and it sounds like she is unable to do that and so it's possible the dogs behaviour will get worse.

Original poster

nothercules · 10/04/2006 18:21

Thanks for all the advice and thoughts. We are going to keep him and fingers crossed it all works out!

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Original poster

nothercules · 10/04/2006 22:44

Things not going so well now. Our dog tried to mount and mouth my mil today and her only reaction is to faintly call for help. I have no idea how she is meant to manage on her own with my daughter next week.

I think we are just avoiding the issue..

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Original poster

nothercules · 10/04/2006 22:49

it's only been a minute but bump anyway.

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Original poster

nothercules · 17/04/2006 09:42

Thought I'd give an update. My mil caught a flight yesterday. She gave us an ultimatum- her or the dog and dh chose the dog. His reckoning is that if we did get rid of the dog, she would of left the following week anyway for another reason as she never stays long with us.

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