****Vallhala****

[ARD91]

Hi Vallhala,

I've been searching the posts alot of tonight as I'm having a problem with an aggressive dog.

He is 16 months old and a chocolate lab mix.

Most of the time he's a very affectionate, well behaved dog, however, he can become aggressive at times. This has become more apparent in recent weeks, and the vet has tried him on herbal medication.

This evening he snapped at, and bit, my aunt. He didn't break the skin, but left a bad bruise.

We phoned the vets straight away and they have expressed wishes to put him to sleep.

I saw on other posts that you have contacts where you can help to rehome an aggressive dog.

The vet wants to put him to sleep tommorow afternoon, and my mother would like him rehomed, if it is possible, asap. She has grown extremely frightened of him and is reluctant to keep him in the house as she spends alot of time in the house alone with him.

Obviously, we would only rehome him if it were to a safe, secure environment for both oscar and his rescuers.

I really hope you can help.

A.

Vall was here earlier. Try pm-ing her?

Whose dog is it yours or your mums? 16 months is just a puppy I am v surprised a vet would advise putting a puppy to sleep for behavioural issues. I'd change vets if I was you.

If there is anyway possible you could keep the dog then you look at what is causing the agression? It could be anything from fear to lack of exercise and under stimulation to something else entirely a good APDT trainer would be able to help you with this. Which is what the vet should have advised.

He has been aggressive from the beginning. He is a shared dog, but since i have recently moved out he lives with my mum and her partner.

He is regualry excersised and has alot of stimulation ranging from one to one contact to many stimulation toys etc.

He hs snapped at a child before, and numerous outsiders as well as all family members who either live in the house, or who visit regularly.

The vets have said there is pretty much nothing more that can be done, and want to put him down at 5.20pm tommorow.

Also, the herbal tablets and clicker training worker for a while, but then he reverted back to his aggressive ways.

He isnt always aggressive, but snarls and snaps with no provocation.

Snapping doesn't always equal 'bad dog' my dogs has snapped at almost everyone he has come into contact with at some point or another. Snapping and biting are two different things, if a dog wanted to cause damage he would do so. Snaps and growls are warnings.

Can't you take the dog and call in a trainer? We have one for The Devil Dog, one to one training can be expensive, but a good trainer is worth his weight in gold if you have a problem dog.

I have two dogs of my own, and tonight he bit my aunt, but didnt break skin.

My mum feels she cant trust him, but is reluctant not to put him to sleep.

Snarling is my dogs forte now. The snapping has stopped now we have figured out the trigger (he is/was nervous-agressive and had seperation anxiety. We worked with a trainer and had lots of help from Midori and Minimu on here ) to help solve this.

He still snarls if you wake him or sit too close to him when he is sleeping. He is no longer allowed on the furniture during the day because of snarling and growling at the dc if they sit too close to him while he is sleeping. He has been trained to sleep in his crate during the day now. Almost all problems are solvable if you have the right trainer and are willing to put in the work. And it is hard work at times. But I am mad about my dogs so it's well worth it imo.

a few other posters work in rescue too. I can't remeber exactly which ones but perhaps start a thread in the dog topic asking about rehoming and someone in the know will be able to help.

my mum and her parnter work full time, but different shifts. I would do anything to save him now, but I just can't see a way to work around the fears that he may bite again.

W spoke to a friend who recommended 'assisi' in northern ireland, as her dog bit a child, and he was rehomed in their sanctury. she is able to sponsor him monthly for food etc.

I think this may be an option, but dont know where to try if they are full?

thank you so much for your help.

The labrador trust?

who are they? would they take him even though he is crossed with who knows what?

Iirc between 12 and 18 months old is when an awful lot of dogs are rehomed. The cute puppy stage has gone and people realise that dogs and all that they entail is actually hard work.

When did you get the dog? From a breeder, a rescue, was he a puppy or a rehome case? Can you give more information.

What is he X with? All these things matter (to me anyway) as some dogs do have a snappy habit in their nature that has to be worked on.

Please, if you cant keep him or control him and are not willing to work with him, make sure he is put into a rescue that will try to give him the best chance possible.

list of lab rescues I have no idea if they are no kill or would work with a problem though. Hopefully someone who knows more will be along soon.

We rescued him as pup. We dont want to have to part with him at all, and would be willing to try almost anything to prevent him having to go.

We got him when he was between 6-8 weeks old.

We have tried clicker training, and herbal tablets from the vets. Both methods worked for a period of time, but seem to have 'worn off'.

Its the fact that he has bitten tonight, and my mum doesnt believe she can trust him not to bite again.

We love him dearly, and this is heartbreaking for us.

The vet told us that the tablets were the last option for us, and that he didnt believe training would work.

It is the vets opion that he has snapped, and now bitten, too often and should be put to sleep.

I really want to give him the best chance possible.

He hasn't bitten btw, he has snapped/mouthed hard. If he has bitten your Aunt would be currently getting her hand sewn back together. Not that that will be of any consolation to your Aunt of course, but it's true in any case. Dogs who are aggressive and bite do so to cause damage.

Has he ever had formal training? i.e puppy classes/one to one with a registered trainer?

Your vet sounds like an eejit. Seriously get another vet. No decent vet would advise putting a puppy/adolescent dog to sleep without the advise of an experinced behaviourist.

hi, sorry to butt in! I'm a vet, and I'm a bit surprised your vet has gone straight to the PTS option with such a young dog without any behavioural consult (although as a disclaimer I don't know the whole story/ haven't seen the dog etc- there may be things your vet has observed etc which has led him/ her to believe that it would be dangerous to keep the dog while waiting for a behav consult etc)

It sounds like you are keen to keep the dog, and if that is the case, and you are prepared to put in the time/ effort/ money (and it CAN be a lot of time/effort/ money, so I'm not dissing those that feel they couldn't) then I'd explore a behaviouralist before doing anything irreversible.

If the concern is that your mum is too frightened to be around the dog/ deal with retraining, I believe there are some places that take dogs residentially (doggy borstal!) and work on their behaviour, although tbh I'm not keen on the idea that someone else trains your dog- I think the dog needs to be able to respond to YOU, but it could be an option (albeit an expensive one), as behavioural treatment can be a long drawn out process, and the danger is still there in the interim.

So sorry this has happened I'd like to think there could be a solution, but sometimes rehoming IS an option. unfortunately once a dog is branded "aggressive" many rescues won't touch (although from reading posts on here, you may yet have some luck with valhalla!)

Jooly, in your opinion, should the vet have prescribed the herbal tablets without reccomending on going training with a behaviourist? I have been led to believe by my dogs trainer that whilst things like herbal remedies/head collars/muzzles etc can be useful as training aids they should not be used in place of or instead of proper training to adress the root of the problem.

Well, I don't like to criticise another vet without having seen the dog/ talked to the owners...but I would have gone straight for behavioural therapy, tbh

OP, is it Zylkene your dog has been prescribed (it's the only herbal thing I can think of)?

Skull something? He gets 3 a day in his food?
Can you recommend any good behaviourists in northern Ireland?

Sorry, I'm over in West of Scotland. "Skull something" sounds homeopathic rather than herbal, tbh. And I do think that your dog might benefit from a behaviouralist.

Why don't you see another vet for a second opinion?

Skullcap and valerian?

Ah- yeah, pretty sure that is homeopathic. I don't claim to be very up-to-speed on homeopathic drugs, so I couldn't really tell you if it's likely to be effective or not. I've nothing agaisnt them, per se, but as they don't seem to be working, possibly push for a referral to a behaviouralist? As I say, it might even be worth getting a second opinion from another vet- even just to say that yes, PTS is the best viable option. If I were you, I'd phone another practice and explain you want a second opinion, possibly behavioural advice- in my practice that would bag you a double appointment (although you'd only pay for one!) so we'd have time to have a good chat/ exam/ discussion about the way forward.

Have you managed to find another vet op? There is a list of APDT registered trainers on the UK kennel website, but just because they are registered, doesn't neccessarily mean they are brilliant. You'd be best off getting a referal from a good vet.

Agree that the vet is an arse, bluntly. I've seen plently of dogs like this turned around and to give up on him would be plain wicked.

WRT rescue, I could help but it would take time. Most of my contacts are in England, some in the Republic amonst other countries but for some odd reason NI is a wilderness to me wrt rescuers.

More to the point I think that this fella would do far better with some continuity rather than the confusion of being taken into rescue and for you to work with him there using a DECENT vet and a reputable, experienced and qualified behaviouralist whose response to anything beyond a 2 month old Cavalier who lays on his back with his legs in the air is not "put him to sleep!". If you really love him you will accept that it will take time and money, but it can be done and you'll work with him. As I said, I can help as a last resort and I will step in if he is otherwise going to be killed but I really don't want that decision to be taken lightly.

My immediate suggestion is that I repost this with a shout for Midori1999, who although a breeder and not a rescuer is a NI resident and who has some contacts in the world of behaviouralists. I may not agree with breeding but I can't fault Midori for her knowledge, common sense and responsibility and you'll be in safe hands accepting recommendations from her.

Thanks for pointing me to this thread Val.

Sadly, finding a good vet or behaviourist in NI has proven especially difficult. I did see a behaviourist myself a while ago, but wouldn't recommend him to anyone sadly.

What area of NI are you in OP? If there is any way I can help, I will do, but I am not able to take another dog myself at the moment sadly, or if rehoming came to be the only option, I'd have him myself. If you'd prefer, then message me the details of where you are.

I agree that the dog hasn't bitten anyone and PTS sounds more than a bit drastic in the circumstances. Has the vet ruled out other physical causes?