Really need some behavioural help with my new puppy, Minimu? Anyone else?

[WhereTheWildThingsWere]

I am a little lost and really don't want to make any more of a mess of my new puppy than I already have.

I have an 11 week old Whippet who I have had for a week and a half, he is not my first dog but is my first Whippet.

In the first week I had him I spent the whole week here with him and was gradually introducing him to the crate whilst I was in the house, so putting him in for short periods and ignoring him while he fussed and then rewarding him once he was calm. He wasn't keen and would quickly start to scratch at the door/dig the floor and cry within a few minutes of the door being shut but would calm down eventually.

After a week I mentioned to the breeder that he seemed slow to accept being crated, she insisted that I had waited too long to leave him and should start leaving him crated whilst we all went out of the house for two hours every day starting from the next day.

I wasn't too sure, but decided I needed to trust her so have followed her advice for three days, on return today he has split a couple of nails and damaged his pads, I presume this is from digging at the door, he also seems exhausted on our return so obviously hasn't been sleeping.

I don't know what to do now and I need to get this right. Sadly we don't have any other safe place to leave him, otherwise I would do that to completely change his experience, although I am a SAHM and so here a lot of the time, I have to be able to do the school run, playgroups etc, so I need to acclimatize him to being alone for short periods.

He is left with a stuffed Kong, a Nylabone and other little chewy treats (interestingly he has always eaten all of these wheras I would have expected him to have left them if he was very anxious) and a top of mine freshly impregnated with my scent.

He is very happy to lie in there and sleep or chew a treat when we are here and the door is open, so he is not afraid of the crate as such.

He is clicker trained and I have spent a lot of time working with him and the clicker wrt crating (click/treating him for going in, lying down biulding up to shutting the door and walking away for longer and longer periods, during these sessions he has been fine and never so much as whined.

When we leave he is always lying calmly and chewing his things.

I need to proceed in the way that is best for him now. Thoughts?

You both sound stressed. Throw away the clicker and the crate. Is there no where he can be shut in while you are out - or a room you can put a child gate across.

I'm afraid my attitude to dogs is pretty much the same as kids - love them, fuss them and a quick tap on the nose is better than long winded clicking / punishment if they're naughty (just kidding about the last bit)

Whippets aren't really meant to be crated - they're not really bred for that. Sounds like you could really enjoy him. Coming back to a poo in the kitchen is better than a stressed out dog with bleeding feet surely.

Caveat: I am an old fashioned gimmer i know but Crates and Clickers haven't really been around that long and folks have had dog for years without needing them.

I think you need to build up the time you leave him gradually. Have you tried leaving him crated whilst you are in another room? Does he have the Kong? nylabone etc at other times or just when he is in the crate? Is the crate covered over with something?

I'm not a behaviourist, obviously, but do have lots of experience with puppies. We never really leave our own puppies at all when they are very young and work on building the time they are in another room first (crated) and then leave for short periods whilst I do the school run etc so onlyout of the house for 15-20 mins, then we gradually build up the time.

I would personally build up the time he is left in the crate while you're in the house and while you're doing that try to leave him home alone for short periods. I would also work on making the crate a really, really great place to be. It sounds like you've gone a long way towards that, but you can do it further by covering the crate over (if you haven't done) and keeping 'special' things like the kong for crate time only, plus a few toys that puppy is only ever allowed in the crate. If you want to give him bones (be a little careful of his tummy at his age and don't give cooked bones) then make sure he is always in the crate for those.

I would also make sure that puppy was as mentally stimulated as possible, so lots of clicker training prior to putting him in the crate and his walks then once he can go out etc.

Totally agree with midori1999 totally disagree with The doodler "whippets are not bred to be crated"!!!!!!!!

Do you crate him at night?

You have not made a mess of your pup at all!

I never said she has made a mess of her pup if that's what you are suggesting. WTWWW has advice now on what to do with the crate and the clicker from you and midori, i was simply saying what i would do. I was worried she was overcomplicating things (much as plenty do with babies on here too - me included).

Just because a woman has one in a crate on youtube doesn't mean they were bred for it, there's no need for sarcasm.

No I was really disagreeing with any "clickers are long winded/punishment" bit of your post as that is exactly what clickers prevent. Also to throw away "crate and clicker" and again a "quick tap on the nose"

Also is any dog bred to be crated? It seemed an odd remark, maybe bred to herd, or point, of retrieve but to be crated not sure!

One woman has a crate on youtube is a top international handler/trainer who has trained many resuce dogs to top level in all dogs sports. She has always used positive training methods and the clicker and never once needed to tap her dogs on the nose - not being sarcastic at all.

The tap on the nose comment was a joke - i did state that.

Well no, i guess no dog is bred to be crated but we were talking about a whippet here - and they are bred to run really.

My dogs (i currently have three) have always slept on a beanbag at the side of the bed from day one and they are all well behaved, loving dogs. We all do things differently, i realise this and WTWWW doesn't really need a deep debate on the rights and wrongs of it all.

Believe it or not i was trying to be helpful. I haven't said anything on here i wouldn't say in RL to people. Again though, it is just my opinion, i don't like clickers or crates. But folks bring dogs up the same way as babies - differently.

We're obviously all dog lovers and that's rare enough on MN without resorting to this. Sorry if i offended anyone.

I have always used a crate with my puppy's, very successfully. I wouldn't throw it away. I would just take stock, and start again. Try feeding meals inside the crate with the door open, treat and reward with lots of fuss and positive praise when pup is in the crate. don't provide any other bed, bed is always the crate. Don't shut the door everytime the pup is in there , build up to shutting it for a matter of sesonds, to a few minutes, all with you in the house, room, next door room. Don't speak to reassure if the pup gets stressed, just reward when calms down, if you speak to try and soothe then they can tkae this as positive reinforcement for the stressed behaviour. May sound daft, but is the crate large enough for you to get inside, and call the pup, treat, fuss and generally reward, then just wlak away from the crate and go back and repeat a little while later? Just don't let anyone see you . Keep positive, it will be fine, your lovely pup will be fine too, you will get there.

Should have said my only experience is being a dog owner, I am not qualified to give any advice, plaese totally ignore me if my ideas don't feel right to you.

Didn't offend me just differing views no problem with that.

Can I really push my luck and ask you to try a clicker? They really really are fab and dogs love them for training.

All except my choccie lab who is too stupid to get the point of a clicker, but I know that for most dogs they are really successful, you just have to try whatever works for you and your pup, just give it long enough to really work, a couple of weeks I think is the advice.

I really just can't get the hang of a clicker, but i do use the word 'good' which I suppose is the same thing, just minus the fiddly gadget I am clearly too stupid to get the hang of...

I love my crates and my dogs love them too. It's true that people have got by for years without them, but people have also got by accepting that puppies chew things and it's a foregone conclusion that if you have a puppy at some point something will be chewed...

Ahh maybe the issue with the clicker lay with the owner and not the puppy..... too. My dogs love my crate too, infact the puppy if often ousted from her bed by my choccie, who remembers it from when she was a pup, it is safe, and quiet for her. Pups do chew though, forgone conclusion, if you turn your back for a second, just fished baby's sandal out of puppy crate less than 1/2 hour ago, wet but still intact!

Dogs of course can be trained without a clicker but for many people using a clicker does mean many behaviours can be trained.

Not necessarily essential but just fun to keep your dog learning and busy.

I train assistance dogs and it certainly makes life easier for us. If the dog is clicker trained when their owners disability changes it is so easy to train the dog new behaviours to help in a very short time of only a few minutes.

Clicker trained dogs are always happy, motivated and desperate to work with the clicker. I only have to pick one up and I will have five dogs in front of me going through their tricks desperate to get the click!

If you do have trouble handling the clicker get a hair tie and put it onto the clicker and then put the clicker around your wrist. It can then be held in the palm of your hand and you are then free to dispense treats easily.

To get started try with the kids - a good game. Decide in what you want them to do and when they do exactly what you want click. If you timing is right they should be able to tell you what they did to get the click. Then move onto the dogs!

I do have a word mine is yess but however hard I try this may come across as YESS, Yes, yea, yah etc and confuses the dog also it takes longer to say a work than click so the exact behaviour can not be marked.
Eg if you are training sit the minute the dogs bottom is on the floor click if you use a word the dog has time to sit and stand up again so can be confusing.

As you know I can bore for Britain on this topic but having worked with dogs for over 20 years I have seen some many new fangled devices! and the clicker is certainly one that works.

For all of you that give it a go Click and Treat () for you

sorry for hijack wherethewildthingswere

Thank you everyone for replying I feel a bit better now I know I am a worrier, I trained my last dog very succesfully, but a new pup suddenenly seems like quite a scary prospect, there is so much to potentially get wrong.

Questions that were asked-

-Yes, the crate is covered and always has been, the Kong is just for when he is left, but the Nylabone he has all the time, I will get him a special squeeky or two as well (he loves squeekys)

-No, he doesn't sleep in the crate, he sleeps on a duvet next to our bed.

Can I ask-

So it is a good idea to do some training/play with him before I leave him? I thought the idea was to 'cool off' a bit before leaving them so the difference wasn't too stark? Obviously I have only left him when he has been awake a long time and I know he is tired.

I need some kind of timetable if anyone can (I work well to instruction, maybe someone could come round with a clicker for me)
How long should I leave him? Should I start off staying in the same room? For how long? Should I continue to go out for short periods, or stay in for a few days?

I love clicker training, I cannot belive what I have been able to teach him already, he is so smart and so quick to pick up on shaping, the only hard part is keeping his interest, as beeing a sighthound, something will catch his eye and he just wanders off. My old Stafford would just sit in front of me drooling trying to work out what I wanted and nothing would distract him.

Just an idea why don't you put the crate by your bed with the duvet in it and let him sleep in it. - with the door open if you like but I would be tempted to shut it if he were happy

I would ,make the crate his bed too, to be happy in the crate it has to feel like a place where good things happen, sleep, food,play, fuss etc.

Help, I have been working really hard with him, short periods while we are with him, endless treats in their clicker work (the crate games were fab btw).

Have also been working with him at the front door de-sensitizing him to the noise of it closing and also steping out and in or going out for a minute or two then coming back and rewarding him, all good.

Had to pop to the shops for just 10 minutes this morning to get bread, returned to puppy with one paw covered in blood where he has ripped his nail again.

Help, what shall I do?

Oh and while I think putting the crate in our room for him to sleep in is a really good idea I am loathe to carry it up and down the stairs twice a day, our stairs are really steep and the crate is very heavy.

Put him in the crate to sleep where it is?

Mine has slept penned (too big for a crate!) since the day I got her at 12 weeks and shows no signs of separation anxiety when we're out.

I think her being initially separated from us at night, when we were in the house, gave her the comfort of not feeling entirely alone when first penned.

...honestly, if my dog were injuring herself repeatedly, I'd get rid of the crate.

Is it absolutely necessary to put her (and yourself!) through this?

*him

I have also considered not using the crate, but I don't really have anywhere else to put him.

Our house is competely open plan downstairs except the kitchen, which I could put him in but I am worried he will be destructive in there.

My other worry is that he is not bothered by the crate as such, he has just had a sleep in there for two hours and will happily eat and take toys in to play with providing we are here, so if I shut him in the kitchen surely he is just going to dig and panic in there?

I am hating this, I can't bear him to hurt himself, but I have to be able to leave him

Hard to say what damage he might do to the kitchen, how about trying it but giving anything at risk a swipe or spray with a chew deterrent formula first?

Or, give overnight crating a go? It sounds as though you prefer him nearby overnight but for now, it might give him a chance to learn to cope with long periods crated but with you 'there'.

You do have to be able to leave him, of course! There will be a way through, over or around this, it's just a case of finding it

Another thought (sorry to throw all these at you!) is using a 'pet deterrent' spray (a small can of compressed air).

If you try crating overnight, use it at the first sign/sound of scratching. It has to be consistent but is a fantastic tool for breaking neurotic behaviour.

Do use it with care if you choose to give it a go because IIRC, whippets can be quite sensitive to sound.