Should universities give clearer information on degree career routes and prospects?

[LyndallMay]

Parents of university students or applicants, would you have wanted to know this before they chose their degree?
I have started a UK Parliament petition asking universities to give prospective students clearer information before they enrol or become financially committed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/776439
Require universities to explain degree career routes and job prospects
The petition asks for students to be told about the full career route connected with a degree, including what the degree does and does not qualify them to do, any further training, examinations, professional requirements, work experience, time and costs.
It also asks for clear and recent information about realistic graduate employment prospects, including where entry level roles may require previous experience.
This is not about guaranteeing anybody a job or discouraging people from university. It is about giving students the full picture while they still have a genuine choice about their degree and career route.
If you agree, I would be very grateful if you would sign and share it.
IMPORTANT: After signing, please check your email and click the confirmation link sent by UK Parliament. Otherwise your signature will not be recorded.

I agree. A student is reading (ie researching and studying ) for a degree qualification. They are not signing up for a career.

I wonder whether op, or op’s dc has entered a course expecting it to lead to xyz, and has now realised it doesn’t without doing abc first, or the course was different to what they expected.

But your answers aren’t clear. I’ve repeatedly asked for clarification and you just repeat yourself.
When specific issues are highlighted to you, you ignore them or just continue to repeat the point that is being challenged.

These are my genuine implementation concerns which I’ve love you to address.

1. The vast majority of degrees offered at UK universities can lead to a vast number of careers. How is it possible to provide information on all possible routes?
2. Where will that information be hosted? Who curates this information.
3. How can universities make sure they are complying with CMA requirements?
4. How can universities predict the future labour market with enough accuracy to ensure CMA compliance?
5. Why do you think this should be a university responsibility? Who will pay for additional resources to ensure this is implemented?
6. How do we ensure international students receive the same information and accurate information about the labour market in their home county?

I'd put money on it. Particularly as OP only has a single (secret) example she can think of. Her little Timmy went to uni and came out with a third in underwater basket weaving and is now struggling to find a job.

A) I had zero help from my university in looking for a career. Some offer placements but most don’t. I did a law degree but didn’t want to go on to study law. There was nowhere for me to go to find a placement in finance for instance.
b) the op wants universities to reveal info about what students go on to do, what their degree qualifies them for, what are career choices after university, etc. I am saying yes to all that plus they should reveal statistics about how many students they help get graduate jobs for. Like I say, US universities have whole departments dedicated to careers. I think this is the way universities should be going - actively are training people up for the job market rather than just being a thing that you have to do to tick a box on an application.

Thank you. I agree that stronger links between universities, employers, internships and careers support can be extremely valuable.

My petition is a little narrower. I am not asking universities to guarantee or find graduates jobs. I am asking for prospective students to be given a clearer picture before they commit, including the known career route, further requirements, costs and realistic employment prospects.

But I certainly agree that helping students understand and enter the world of work should be taken seriously.

If placements were important to you, why did you choose a university that didn't offer them instead of one that did?

Better careers advice in sixth forms and colleges would certainly help some students, but not every university applicant is coming straight from school.

Many people enter higher education later in life, retrain or change careers. Who are they supposed to rely on for that same guidance?

That is why I think the important information should also be clear from the university before enrolment. Students should still research, but they should not have to depend on having had the right school or college careers advice years earlier.

Underwater basket weaving sounds fun! I regret my English Language and Literature degree now. I'm going to sue my university for not having made me aware that an English degree does not lead to a career in aquatic crafts, because I believe universities should take full responsibility for informing prospective students of careers that will not be open to them if they opt for a particular degree.

Typo

Because not everyone wants to take a 4 year degree with a placement. People want summer internships for instance. Placements work if they are connected to your specific degree but hard to find a history degree that do res placement at Goldman Sachs for instance.

Don’t most unis really push most of this already because they know that’s what students and their parents want. Can’t students who are at degree level do a bit of research themselves. I don’t think you can tell someone what they aren’t and aren’t qualified to do. The list is so long and there’s so many conditions on grading the modules they select, masters or additional training and courses available during the undergraduate or top up qualifications that are needed for different routes.
this is also usually part of the course, and students have access to Google and often older / further along students.

I also think it’s a bit sad and a bit too capitalist to only see a value in learning in terms of its potential financial prospects

That example actually illustrates my point.

If a particular route may require further study such as a Master’s or PhD, involves additional time and cost, and may still lead to low paid work, that is exactly the sort of information a prospective student should understand before committing.

The petition is not asking universities to guarantee one career. It is asking for the known route and realistic employment picture to be made clearer before the decision is made.

Is there a large cohort of young people who are headed for university with a career goal in mind who are unable to Google "how do I become a psychologist/Primary school teacher/police detective/forensic scientist" and find what the requirements of the job are?
I went to university in 1998. I studied English Literature and Social Sciences because I found them interesting. Even then I was able to use career services and books to find out that if I wanted to teach English I needed to do a PGCE. I also was able to find out that if I wanted to be a solicitor then I would need to a law conversion and then get a training contract etc. I went to a very bog standard sixth form in the North West that didn't have any connections to employers or universities and just took up to some career fairs. It was up to us to work out what was needed. The lad in my year who wanted to be a pilot found out what was required (not a university course) and did that. The person who wanted to be an accountant went to university to study something else different and then did his accountancy qualifications later.

Someone else posted that the starting point is looking up jobs and careers that interest you and then working back from that. Want to be a chartered surveyor? Look up the job, most have spoke professional body that has the information on how to become XYZ, and then work back from that. With AI embedded in most search engines you don't even need to go straight to the regulatory or professional body, I looked up social worker and can tell that if that's what I want to do I need to find a course that is accredited.

My 12 year old has looked up how to do her dream job and already worked out what GCSEs she should take to get her on the right degree for it. It's easier now than ever.

Should the universities which offer a degree in professional policing also have to point out that to be a police officer you shouldn't have certain tattoos, take drugs and need to be able to drive? That to be a doctor or nurse you should be able to deal with bodily fluids? At what stage of a career or education should personal responsibility play a part?

It is sad. That's why many humanities departments are struggling.

Same here. And surely giving the ‘full career route’ for every student would contravene privacy laws, especially if you published the list for a small cohort?

I work with data on HE and students and any group with under 5 students is suppressed so individuals can’t be personally identified.

I agree with the wider point that universities should take employability and career preparation seriously.

My petition is narrower than asking universities to secure jobs or internships. It is about making sure prospective students understand the known route, further requirements, costs and realistic employment picture before they commit.

If degrees are increasingly being treated as a necessary step into work, that makes clear information before enrolment even more important.

If the prospective students cant do this research themselves I despair.

A lot of it is basic common sense. Medicine, law, engineering, accountancy all have good job prospects.

Media studies, communication studies at a third rate ex poly will not.

You are assuming that someone was “caught out”. I have not said that.
I do have a specific example, and I have written an article setting out the background and the evidence in more detail. I am currently waiting for the final response process to be completed before I release it.
Once it is published, people will be able to read the example properly and judge it for themselves.
The petition itself is wider than one individual case. It is about whether prospective students should have clearer information before they commit.

Which, as many of us have pointed out, is already available!!!

And if you can’t find it then university is not for you.

No that was literally the point the pp you quoted was making. It opens up so many routes. One particular route requires further training. Others require different training and many others don’t require more training at all. How can the university know which you will take.

if your argument is simply that they should say if they ‘may’ require more training or qualifications, then almost every course ‘may require’ that because who knows what you’re going to do with that degree, or what an employer may want from you in 3-4 years. So it becomes a useless bit of info if they’re all saying it.

First post nailed it. This information is out there. Every degree posts graduate outcome stats. Career path for any degree can be researched. These are adults who will need to be researching in order to complete their degree. I think schools should be telling sixth formers to do this research (hopefully they already do). Dd did architecture and she knew how long it would take to become fully qualified. She didn’t just think it would be a three year degree and then finished.

Theres also the fact that the job market changes so quickly. If universities give information and then it’s different on qualifying someone will try suing for being misled! Would need some strongly worded caveats that things can change and people should do their own research as well I guess.

Your own History example actually illustrates my point.

If someone may need a Master’s or PhD for a particular route, with further time, cost and potentially low pay afterwards, that is exactly the sort of information a prospective student may want to understand before committing.

I am not asking universities to guarantee one career. I am asking for the known route and realistic employment picture to be made clearer before the decision is made.

Your thinking seems very blinkered. There are no career pathways for the vast majority of degrees. Eg: one relative of mine studied engineering, but he is now a chef. Another studied electrical engineering, but he is now a solicitor. Another studied maths, but she now teaches Pilates. These aren’t just temp jobs that they are filling in time with. It’s what they wanted to do. There are a myriad of pathways that people can take, all individual to them.

Where will it be published?
I’ve had articles published on the use of information in university choice so I’m interested in who will be publishing yours?

DT’s have both graduated but they chose their degree course on the components in the syllabus, how the end qualification linked to their career aspirations and whether the specific degree would give them entry onto post grad courses.
It was their responsibility to do this and not the Universities

Ok, so choose a uni that offers support for the kind of internships you'd be interested in. Part of the reason my DS went to the LSE was because of the links it has to the finance industry. At least one of the summer internships he went on was sign-posted by LSE staff.

On the other hand I think it's a bit far-fetched to do a history degree and then expect your hand to be held to get you a finance placement. If you did aeronautical engineering would you expect to be assisted in to a marketing internship? You've got to give them something to go on.