Should universities give clearer information on degree career routes and prospects?

[LyndallMay]

Parents of university students or applicants, would you have wanted to know this before they chose their degree?
I have started a UK Parliament petition asking universities to give prospective students clearer information before they enrol or become financially committed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/776439
Require universities to explain degree career routes and job prospects
The petition asks for students to be told about the full career route connected with a degree, including what the degree does and does not qualify them to do, any further training, examinations, professional requirements, work experience, time and costs.
It also asks for clear and recent information about realistic graduate employment prospects, including where entry level roles may require previous experience.
This is not about guaranteeing anybody a job or discouraging people from university. It is about giving students the full picture while they still have a genuine choice about their degree and career route.
If you agree, I would be very grateful if you would sign and share it.
IMPORTANT: After signing, please check your email and click the confirmation link sent by UK Parliament. Otherwise your signature will not be recorded.

Some students may ignore the information, but that does not mean it should not be provided clearly for those who do want to make an informed decision.

A degree can cost years of someone’s life and a significant amount of money. It is only fair that prospective students are given a clear picture of the route, further requirements, costs and realistic employment prospects before they commit.

People have freedom of choice. If someone chooses not to read the information, that is their decision. But those who do want to understand what they are committing to should have the information available when it matters.

I will not be signing this petition. It is built on the assumption that there is a direct relationship between a degree and a career. Even with the most vocational of degree pathways such as medicine, that is not the case. Forcexample, many resident doctors are unable to progress to their chosen specialism because demand outstrips supply. Some are leaving the UK. Some are opting to work in related fields.

The petition's mindset is the same one as that of the parent who mistakenly believes that by paying school fees they are buying top GCSE and A level grades.

Around 40% of universities are struggling financially. The resource to collate what information is already available publicly and commission research from graduates would further add to their costs.

Lawyers would have a field-day if this information were provided by universities as students would sue their university when they failed to secure employment in one of the roles specified for the degree they had undertaken.

Alongside the information sources cited in this thread already is the National Careers Service, which can help answer the question 'If I want to work in X, what degree pathway should I be considering?', a complementary approach to asking the question 'I want to do X degree. What career options will that open for me?' nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/

Published where?

those who do want to understand what they are committing to should have the information available when it matters.

And they can already find it ! Via various sources

You are entitled to think the petition is stupid. I do not.

If someone is entering into a major contract, you would expect the important terms to be made clear before they agree. You would not normally say, “some of the important information is elsewhere, go and find it yourself.”

A degree involves years of someone’s life and a significant financial commitment. Students should absolutely research, but that does not mean the important known information about further requirements, costs and realistic employment prospects should be scattered across different places.

I am not asking universities to map every possible career or guarantee anyone a job. I am asking for clearer information before the commitment is made, so those students who want to make an informed choice are able to do so.

Facebook sidebar of shame probably.

Just give us examples of the sort of information you think they should provide. Use the example of a BA History web page. Feel free to make up examples if you’re worried about infringing the content of your forthcoming publication. But no one really understands what you want to see as you’re being so vague and unspecific.

I have never said Discover Uni provides no employment data. I have said that employment data is not the same as providing the whole picture about a particular course, further professional requirements, experience, costs and the route afterwards.

You have also said yourself that applicants need to consider other factors and that requirements can differ. That is precisely why I am saying the relevant information can sit across different places.

Asking for clearer information before someone commits years of their life and significant money is not infantilising them. They are still perfectly capable of researching further and making their own decision.

As for your speculation about what I personally understood when studying law, that is just that: speculation.

You are entitled to disagree with the petition, but your comments have become unnecessarily personal and rude. Personal remarks about me do not answer the substance of what I am asking for, and they do not strengthen your argument.

I have explained my position clearly, so I will not be responding to any further comments from you.

We started doing this years ago but they still don't read what we've published. They still try and take legal action against us for misleading them. We now have enough proof that any such claims can be easily dismissed. The blame now lies entirely with the individual who couldn't be arsed to read a web page or understand that anything they're being told applies to them and not just the other people in the room (yes, someone has tried to argue that they didn't think it applied to them).

Bluntly, if the student in question is incapable of doing basic research themselves, it’s a clear sign they aren’t ready to embark on a degree.

The contract you sign with a university specifies the degree course you will taught. It is specifically NOT offering a career. It is offering a degree.

You seem fundamentally confused about what universities are actually there for.

You haven’t explained clearly at all - every single poster on your thread is confused.

This is UCL’s BA History page: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/study/prospective-students/undergraduate/courses/history-ba

What else would you like to see on this page?

Yes universities should actively be involved in careers like they are in the US. I went to a talk with my child from the chief admissions person at an American university and it was all about how they work with the students to help them choose a career and then actively helped the students get internships and jobs. They then used this as a recruiting tool. It should absolutely be the responsibility of a university to build relations with firms so that graduates have jobs when they finish their degree.

The petition is not only about the degree itself. It is also about what comes afterwards, including the reality of trying to enter the relevant profession or job market.

That can involve further requirements, experience, additional costs and the practical difficulty of actually getting into the work.

I am deliberately not going into all of the background here. My article will explain that in more detail when it is published.

For now, the petition is there for people to read and decide for themselves whether they agree with what it is asking for.

if not law, am thinking maybe BSc psychology, can imagine people doing that and not realising they can’t go off and practice right away!
there’s need for 3 years post undergrad. (if course is BPS accredited.. if not a conversion course) work experience, then 3 year doctorate all highly competitive.

Ironically, one of the subjects they will have to learn on their Law Degree is Contract law, where they will find out about the concept of 'buyer beware'. It is up to the person entering the contract to be informed about the contract they are entering and whether or not it is for them.

No - I did a chemistry degree because I loved the subject, and back then (pre the web) I had very little idea of the many and varied careers it could lead to. I just knew I wanted to be an scientist of some sort. And in fact what I ended up doing for a 40 year career simply wasn’t a ‘career path’ at the point when I began my degree. What should the course info have included? - would the OP compel it to add “career path may be in a field that’s not yet been invented and you’ll need training in techniques which also haven’t yet been invented”?

By “full career route” I mean the whole known journey from starting the degree through to what may be required afterwards to enter the relevant profession or type of work.

The degree is one stage of that journey. Depending on the route, there may then be further qualifications, examinations, professional requirements, work experience, additional time and costs before someone is actually able to enter that profession.

I am not saying every degree leads to one fixed career. I am saying that where a known route exists, prospective students should understand the whole route, not just the university stage, before they commit.

Then what are you asking? You’ve repeatedly said expect information on the ‘full career route’ but now that’s not what you’re asking?

And the student contract does not include anything on employment post graduation. The contract is directly related to the teaching of the degree not what happens once you’ve left the university.

Students absolutely should research and think for themselves. My point is that research only works properly if people know what they need to look for and where to find it.

When someone is committing years of their life, significant money and a great deal emotionally, the important known information should be clear before they make that decision.

That is not removing personal responsibility. It is helping people make an informed choice.

That’s what I was asking.

The problem I see is that things change. The market when you start a degree is not always the same when you finish it 4 or 5 years later.

And if there are hundreds of ‘known routes’ (which there are) how do you expect that to be communicated?

And what about unknown/new routes? Do we ignore them completely? What about international students? Do we need to provide all ‘known routes’ for them too?

The ‘whole journey’ is different for every individual student so again, how do we plan for that?

Yep, that’s why the UKs leading expert on the graduate labour market won’t even be as specific as the Op is suggesting. It’s just not possible or ethical.

A question for OP. How will your proposal take account of the replacement of entry-level graduate jobs by AI, and shifts in job availability as government policy changes eg levels of green energy adoption?

This constant volatility serves to highlight both the importance of A level and graduate students doing their own research and the burdensome duty that would be placed on universities were your proposal to be accepted.

The "contract" that you are entering into relates to the university degree itself. If you work hard and satisfy all of the requirements, you will get the degree that you signed up for.

You are not signing a contract to qualify for a particular career, and if you don't realise this because you've failed to do your research properly, then that is on you.