Abolish LEA fines for taking kids out of school for holidays

[KuanKaKu]

Recent times have proven that taking time away from the home for a holiday is important for families; a holiday provides much needed regrouping time, benefits the mental health and wellbeing of the whole family, provides inter-generational socialisation, access to wider cultures and events, being able to travel in term time will make holidays accessible to those who can not afford to travel during peak school holidays, and planned absence is easier for schools to manage than excess last minute 'sick days'. There are many more benefits to abolishing these fines - for genuine holidays, including the benefit on the tourism sector of demand being spread more evenly throughout the year, providing longevity of employment contracts, cheaper travel for teachers in the holidays and a more reliable income stream for tourism businesses throughout the year. PLEASE SIGN. https://chng.it/PBrrYtRCCB

Our cousins used to visit while we were at school. We'd just go out evenings and weekends and they could sightsee during the day.

And when we went to visit them in their country, they went to school and we'd (again) do things evenings and weekends.

It was never a problem.

As a teacher, it's a no from me. Kids being out of school for a week or two at a time is disruptive to learning. I won't be signing a petition.

Thing is I'd understand it more if the only way to afford a holiday at all was to go in term time.....but every year you get sad face stories about people going to Disney and getting fined or parents saying how much they saved by not going skiing in half term. If you have the budget for skiing and Disney then chances are you could afford (maybe a shorter trip) to go in school holidays.

I do completely understand why people choose to take their children out of school for a holiday, however I do not agree that schools should authorise the requests. It would be completely unmanageable and sends the wrong message on attendance.
If a parent makes the decision to take their child out of school, then they should take full responsibility for the impact e.g. the fines, catching up with work, lower attendance rating.

It makes my eyes roll when parents say it's more educational than being in school due to the life experience! Just own it, it's much cheaper and you have made the decision that it's a higher priority for that period than your child being in school.

I agree and I’ve signed. It’s ridiculous you cannot take your own children on holiday when you want.

I did it with my eldest - went to Egypt, visited the Pyramids, Cairo museum it was awesome, also took her Disney land. She did fab in her exams and now works abroad loving life in Dubai.

Other two kids are in private school and can take them out when I want so no skin in the game. But I think it’s massive over reach that the schools fine state schools for this.

Before this came in to play kids did this all the time and no one died!

You can take your kids away when you want. But you have to pay a fine.

If there was an opposite petition to this (tougher fines) I'd sign it. You can't have half the class waltzing off all the time just so their holiday is a bit cheaper.

You can take your kids away when you want. But you have to pay a fine.

Or say they are ill.

Good for you. I agree with this. My daughter has never had a day off sick, yet some children in her class are off "sick" every other week without a penalty charge. They say it's down to headteacher discretion but I highly doubt that's ever exercised.

I don’t want my DC in a class where others regularly take time off for holidays. It’s disruptive.

Yabvu op.

During the pandemic much was made about how every day is important to kids futures, their earning potential, mental health, socialising skills etc. you may recall during the alpha wave the government taking legal action to stop some London schools a day early.

Except now nah it isn't really because fuck it I want to take them on holiday when it's cheap and save even more by not being fined either.

When people say "regularly" "all the time" how often do you mean?

Schools don't fine anyone.

Those were often wasted days and weeks. Nothing to experience, no one to spend time with. Parents going out to work leaving young teens or older children home alone. Parents WFH and children on devices.

What is it about one to one? No one is getting it, we don't have the staff.
But if we did kids with SEND would get it as part of their actual education.
At least that's what we would do.
Roll on new government!

A far simpler solution is to allow schools or LEAs the freedom to set their own term dates thereby spreading the demand across a wider period.

That'll go down well with families that have children in different schools. Even better if one or both parents work in schools. You could be juggling four or more different lots of term dates!

How many people going on about enriching cultural experiences have done everything there is to do within a couple of hours of their own home? Or is it only cultural and enriching if it's a plane ride away?

This would be a logistical nightmare. Academies already can set their own holidays but choose to align with local authorities as the logistics of having teachers in one school having different holidays to their kids in another school, or siblings having different holidays, would be impossible to manage.

How many people going on about enriching cultural experiences have done everything there is to do within a couple of hours of their own home? Or is it only cultural and enriching if it's a plane ride away?

It depends if there is a local community from that cultural background holding events and get togethers you can join. Even then, it's often not the same as the celebration in the home country with family.

Not read the full thread so this may well have already been said, but this has got no hope @KuanKaKu. The government are increasing fines and toughening up their stance on holiday related absences, so they might "consider it for a debate" but you've got two hopes on this one; Bob Hope and no hope.

Nope.
As a professional, I like to be able to choose to go on holiday when I know the resort will not be full of children and their obnoxious entitled parents.
As a teacher, my DM would say nope too as having a child out of class for a week and then getting them back after is chaotic. They are out of routine, probably been spoiled, behind with the classwork. If you want kids but can't afford holidays in school holiday times, you either don't go, or you go once every 3 years rather than every year.

@Kalevala re Or say they are ill

Nope. Many kids are sick or mentally unfit yet marked Unauthorised and fined. Some are now sending pics of vomit to prove it. Many parents of unwell kids (mental health) go through hoops yet face fines and prosecution. More than a few days and they won't authorise without evidence and fine anyway. The fines should be dropped for everyone.

I was teaching when holidays were still allowed and do many parents were unreasonable. Some would go away for 2 weeks with one parent, come back for a few days, and then go away for 2 weeks with other parent missing 4 weeks out of 5. Students in Y11 and Y13 would miss 2 weeks just before Easter. There were so many stories. Also it was just as expensive to go away in school holidays.

Fines for absence are just regressive, and harm parents with school refusers more than anything.

There's this line trotted out that 'every day counts' at school. It doesn't. Kids are going to be fine if they miss a few days or even a week here or there. The biggest predictor of kids getting the most out of school is whether their parents support them, and fines don't help that one way or another.

Perhaps. But there is usually correlation between parents who take their children to Disney or Malaga during term time and parents who do not value education.

Parents who support their children's education don't tend to take term time holidays.

@Gladtobeout I don't necessarily disagree, I'm sure there are lots of parents who don't value education out there who do like a cheap holiday, but I still don't think fines are appropriate.

In the UK, it's the parent's responsibility to ensure their child has an education. This general duty conflicts with the laws around attendances. We've got this weird two-tier system: either the parents are home schooling entirely, or the parents give over full educational control to a school who can then punish them for taking back any of that control. Could be a bit more compromise here.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/the-link-between-absence-and-attainment-at-ks2-and-ks4
Attendance makes a difference to achievement.