Losing my job because I'm a parent

[Luaper]

Since the C-19 pandemic began I have felt that the 'new normal' is likely to include a disadvantage to parents. My employer made an early decision not to furlough any employees and offered parents the option to cut their working hours - but the expectation is still there that the same amount of work as a full time employee is delivered. As such, over the past 4 months I have worked every evening including weekends to keep up whilst still trying to give my primary age school children some structure / home school in the day and normality and fun at the weekends. It has however been pointed out at work that I am less effective than my colleagues without children because I have too many distractions and answer emails at inconsiderate times of the day.

At present that are the following protected characteristics under employment law (set out in the Equality Act); age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation. I think that parenting of young children should be added to this list and would ask the reader to sign the petition below.

Ask yourself this - if you were an employer would you employ a parent knowing that whilst C-19 circulates there will be frequent school closures that mean the individual has to quarantine for 14 days? And that whilst they are quarantining they will be looking after children which will mean that they cannot effectively work from home. At present there is little to prevent employers discriminating against parents in redundancy programmes and those same individuals may find it hard to find a new job. This has a serious knock on impact on families and children and is why parents as a group need this enhanced employment protection.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/319813

No, it’s not always possible, and there needs to be a safety net but I’m guessing the vast majority of folk on Mumsnet aren’t refugees. When the safety net stops being about catching people who otherwise would fall through the net and becomes about supporting everyone through everything, it’s not a safety net.

Why just parents under 11?
Plus its discriminates against those minors over the age of 11 who still require parenting and education. We still have to support them, and try juggle gcse support on top.

How will parents be discriminated against in terms of redundancy? Existing Acts cover this.

Where is the other parent in all of this?

The government only have an obligation to provide a means of education, if you (general) don't like how the school wants their work done, other options are available.

Why should people be allowed to get the same wage and do less work? It doesn't make financial sense to the company. Colleagues get pissed off and if it's a regular occurence, leave.

Children and working have always been problems, it's not down to the government of workplaces to resolve, it's down to parents to deal with and should have been a part of the planning.

Yes I understand shit happens, but it's still down to the parents to resolve. Yea I get it's hard, I'm a single parent with no family on either side, dad not around, two of mine has sn and I have a whole heap of health stuff. Had to home ed one of mine without the furlough protection, reduced hours, wfh etc.

the expectation is still there that the same amount of work as a full time employee is delivered
To be honest if you want a full time salary it is not U to be expected to work full time hours - a decent employer would allow you to spread your hours into early mornings and evenings during school closures as long as your job allows it, ie not if you have to answer the phone during business hours.

This isn’t discrimination because having children is a choice. Not a immutable characteristic.

Signed. I've only skimmed comments but don't agree that this already directly falls under the umbrella of sex discrimination.

My husband has faced discrimination at work for taking an equal role in childcare (including SPL).

In fact, more men might actually be encouraged to split caring responsibilities 50/50 if they were protected by law against being discriminated against for doing so.

What discrimination did he encounter?

This has been a really interesting thread and I've enjoyed reading both sides' opinions. One thing that came to my mind is if the working parents are expected to be less effective in the workplace, how do we quantify 'less'? Also, How happy will parents be if there was no quality online learning because their child's teacher is a parent and is now working part time, but the school cant afford to hire a second member of staff because the teacher is fully paid? (equally so for other industries - teaching just came to my mind as a 'service' a employee (teacher) provides to the public )

There needs to be a formal recognition of the extra burden on parents, and some sort of partial furlough scheme to allow parents to look after their kids without doing two full-time jobs and losing all quality of life.

Wtf? I can’t believe someone has actually typed this! The entitlement of some people is outstanding.

Formal recognition by who? For what? You don’t get a gold star for managing to have children and get a job, those are normal things for people to do that are so unremarkable they really don’t deserve ‘Formal recognition’.

And some sort of partial furlough? Seriously? So basically you want to be paid for looking after your own kids, that you chose to have?

I get that things have been difficult for parents recently, and I’ve had a huge amount of sympathy for those parents that have had to try and home school while juggling wfh, but childcare is open again in most places, schools are open again, we’re allowed to use family and friends for childcare.

There’s no reason why employers shouldn’t be able to expect their employees to work at full capacity now that lockdown has mostly been lifted. Where employees still have a problem with childcare in the aftermath of lockdown, employers should be understanding and flexible for the next few weeks, but it’s only a minority that should need that and no one should expect to be paid for doing nothing when there is work available for them to do.

This is a slippery slope. If we give special treatment to parents due to carer role for their children, then what about all the middle aged carers who have had to give up work to care for elderly or disabled parent or grandparent?

@popcornlover

What about all the people with no kids (or grown kids) who, in other circumstances, have to cover your work while you swan off taking DC to the doctors, dentist, or stay at home with them when they’re ill off school? Lots of people don’t like this aspect of life but they don’t set up a petition for it.

As a PP correctly pointed out, if you have kids you have to expect some career sacrifice.

You can’t have everything. Lots of people in all circumstances are suffering under Covid.

Your comment provides a pejoritive view that a worker works less than their colleagues because they take a child to the doctors.

It is this view point that can lead to parents being treated unfairly at work and why parents need employment law protections.

@Fatted

Why should the government have to legislate for the fact that your employer is an arse hole?

Because there are likely to be others in the same situation. In my view there doesn't seem to be anything to stop an employer making all parents redundant provided they didn't discriminate based on sex.

she was pissed off because her employer, having given flexibility in reduced working hours, expected her to fulfil her job role

If they are paying for reduced hours and expecting full time work she should be pissed off with them.

This isn't the employers issue if a partner doesn't step up?

It's also not sex discrimination, men and women are parents.

As an employer I do everything possible to allow my male staff to support the family but I'm not running a charity if the output and work isn't to standard for whatever reason in today's market there will be someone that can do it better?

Why can't you just reduce your hours and manage expectations? Get a balance and move on and accept that being a parent is challenging and we all, employers included have to juggle.

Its petitions like this that would put me off employing women if I'm brutally honest. I'm a women I have two children and I run and own a business with staff.

@Tlollj

This isn’t discrimination because having children is a choice. Not a immutable characteristic.

Marriage, civil partnership, pregnancy and religion include choices and are already protected characteristics.

Having children is a choice. You don't have to have children. Why should legislation be created to protect a choice? Protected characteristics are not choices, being disabled is not a choice, your sex is not a choice, having children is a choice

It's also not sex discrimination, men and women are parents

Its petitions like this that would put me off employing women if I'm brutally honest

Do you not see the inconsistency there?

@C8H10N4O2 yes because it's a woman setting up the petition.

If I was employing and saw the person I employing was busy setting up and publishing discrimination petitions based on parenting I'd think twice about taking them on.

@Luaper you seem to be assuming a prejudice against parents in the workplace. Approximately 2 3rds of my team are parents to children of various ages (I.e they are in the majority). Parents hold senior and board positions. They wield power in the company. Some are extremely effective and others are less so as would be expected across a group. I do not see how they are being discriminated against in general society. The comparison between this group and other protected characteristics is seems unrealistic and may dilute the effectiveness of protections for these characteristics (sex, race etc.)

In the current climate with COVID parents have had to prioritise and adapt to new ways of working and companies have largely supported this where they can. If your company has not supported you how you expected then I really do feel for you however many have gone out of their way to accommodate parents needs. However it is ultimately the parents responsibility to care for their children and provide a secure environment.

yes because it's a woman setting up the petition

You said it would put you off employing "women" not the Op. And that is a typical reaction and why it is sex descrimination.

Women bear the overwhelming load of caring responsibilities, employers know this and disproportionately penalise women when they become parents. When one sex is disproportionately disadvantaged it is sex discrimination.

Sorry OP my last post maybe a bit harsh, it's just so tough.

I've had to make staff redundant who are parents watch my business of 15 years half in staff and revenue while juggling teenagers myself, I have my mortgage on the line here trying to keep business running and you are clearly still in a role getting paid and also sounds like your employer is trying their best to accommodate and get through this awful time.

And you have time to set up petitions? Maybe for a moment think about how lucky you are to have a role right now and how lucky you are to have an employer that is still running a business and thank them for keeping you on?

I'll go now!

@C8H10N4O2 in which case I'll own that, yes I'm actively discriminating against women, the women who decide to become martyrs to their own choices and expect employers to carry that burden.

My male staff members only work 4 day weeks so they can support their wife's careers and to ensure their children don't go to nursery 5 days a week. When employers start supporting men more that's when we will see change.

If they are paying for reduced hours and expecting full time work she should be pissed off with them.

I agree, and made the same observation my initial response, it still doesn’t amount to discrimination and I don’t think protection for parents should be enshrined in law.

Although I appreciate that it's hard for parents I don't think expecting others to pick up what you aren't doing because you're a parent is a workable solution

As the parent of a small child I must say I agree with this. Gender, age, sexual orientation, disability and religion may impact on the way in which a job is completed or require minor allowances but non of them are in themselves a full time job. Childcare is a full time job that’s why people are paid to do it!

Being a little slower due to gender or disability for example is NOT the same as saying ‘I’m actually looking after my kids but will try to fit some work in around when they’re distracted/asleep’

The current economy is a catch 22
Employee can’t afford to not work
Employer can’t afford to pay employees to not do the job properly (at the correct times...etc)

The furlough scheme was put in place largely to cushion the impact of this ^ but it is happening and I’m afraid businesses are not charities, unless childcare (not schools) is an option then one parent will have to remain home or PT with children.

Yes this may mean downsizing
Yes this may be unaffordable
Yes this may be unfair to women

But I’m not sure CV 19 cares about any of that

It is this view point that can lead to parents being treated unfairly at work and why parents need employment law protections.

And that will lead to employers not giving jobs to women of child bearing age. It's already happening in fact. It has been happening for years, but we can't prove it so nothing can be done about it.

It is a slippery slope.

It is also going to lead to resentment within the team from people with no or older children who have already been covering for parents who have been homeschooling during the pandemic - often at the detriment of their physical and mental wellbeing. Where is the support, concern or even empathy for them?

You have all the protections you need in normal times. Covid was not and is not a normal time, but it will pass.

Oh and btw, starting a petition for a major change in the equality act because your employer has a current problem with your output is a bit of an overreaction.