Losing my job because I'm a parent

[Luaper]

Since the C-19 pandemic began I have felt that the 'new normal' is likely to include a disadvantage to parents. My employer made an early decision not to furlough any employees and offered parents the option to cut their working hours - but the expectation is still there that the same amount of work as a full time employee is delivered. As such, over the past 4 months I have worked every evening including weekends to keep up whilst still trying to give my primary age school children some structure / home school in the day and normality and fun at the weekends. It has however been pointed out at work that I am less effective than my colleagues without children because I have too many distractions and answer emails at inconsiderate times of the day.

At present that are the following protected characteristics under employment law (set out in the Equality Act); age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation. I think that parenting of young children should be added to this list and would ask the reader to sign the petition below.

Ask yourself this - if you were an employer would you employ a parent knowing that whilst C-19 circulates there will be frequent school closures that mean the individual has to quarantine for 14 days? And that whilst they are quarantining they will be looking after children which will mean that they cannot effectively work from home. At present there is little to prevent employers discriminating against parents in redundancy programmes and those same individuals may find it hard to find a new job. This has a serious knock on impact on families and children and is why parents as a group need this enhanced employment protection.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/319813

It is sex descrimination and will be as long as women are the primary child bearers, rearers and default parents.

As a society we need new generations coming through to wipe our bums in old age (or fly us to Switzerland) and yet they are described as a "lifestyle choice" alongside cars, holidays and upmarket houses instead of a key resource for the future.

Women bear by far the greatest burden of supplying that next generation, in terms of health, pay and job losses in the UK so its absolutely a sex based issue.

@EL8888 where is the money going to come from to house and feed the families that lose their income as a result of this impossible situation they've been put in?

This is going to cost. It could go on for a very long time. Life will not be able to go on as it has. What we need to ask is are we a society who looks after its vulnerable members (children included) or a race to the bottom where only the strong and the unencumbered survive?

Pregnancy is a condition that women experience. The Law states that employers shouldn't expect women to return to work within two weeks of having a baby. There is no legislation compelling men to take time off when they become fathers.

Pursuing this as a 'parenting issue' will be fruitless. It's vanishingly easy for most employers to prove (perfectly legitimately) that they don't discriminate against all parents, as men aren't discriminated against in the way way when they become parents.

Also, if you're going to pursue an argument that 'parenting young children' should be a protected characteristic, you'd have to demonstrate how this situation de facto discriminates against all parents. Which you can't do, as men aren't discriminated against.

I agree with the poster who said that Covid has been a gift to employers about how they can throw employee protections out of the window.

Also, if that the argument that 'parenting young children' causes disadvantage at work is going to be used, 'caring for a child or another person with a disability' is even more disadvantageous and excluding this from the proposed category exposes the limited nature of this petition.

VeniceQueen2004 yes absolutely.

Having children may be a 'lifestyle choice' but it's one that you can't change your mind about if your circumstances change.

And the 'people should taken steps to protect themselves' is laughable. As if being poor, disabled or ill is a failure of individual planning.

I am not minded to support this approach to dealing with the problem. Part of the reasons why some mothers are struggling are due decisions being made in the home. In my opinion the wrong decisions are being made. But I this is a personal freedom.

At work support parents in many ways. Including offering agile and flexible working, parental leave and working from home where this is possible. We developed programmes to build confidence to voice problems and to challenge behaviour. Our leaders have heard and accepted this is an issue.

We have a long way to go. But we won’t get there any faster waiting for legislation that puts most staff into a protected group.

As to the OPs situation. She has a bad employer and her children have a bad father.

In some ways I quite look forward to the inevitable mental health relapse I will have if this situation carries on. I had a breakdown from overwork and stress in December and had to take 3 weeks off sick and go on medication.

Now I am no longer able to medicate due to health reasons, and the pressure on me has been magnified twice over by COVID, if and when I go off sick with stress now it's likely to be for the long haul. At least then it will only be one job I'm doing craply, instead of two. And work will continue having to pay me, and I believe would find it more difficult to sack me, if I was on the sick.

These are the kind of thoughts a once hardworking, productive and conscientious employee is having to think in this environment. It's shit.

@lemonTT

As to the OPs situation. She has a bad employer and her children have a bad father

You have absolutely NO idea about the OP's children's father. None. There might be any number of reasons he isn't able to help. He might be a front line doctor. He might be stuck abroad. He might be on active service in the military. He might be living with his elderly parents and shielding. He might be dead.

She hasn't mentioned him at all (I've checked). What a rude, presumptuous, idiotic thing to say.

And even if he was able to help, that's still only 50% of the time the child is awake she can be working. And then she gets ticked off for sending emails late at night.

Society centrally encourages people to have children. There is support. Whether people think it is enough is a point of debate.

But we don’t encourage people to have a child in every circumstance and situation. There are good times and bad times to have children. There are good situations and bad situations in which to have a child. And sometimes it’s best for some people not to have children at all.

But we can’t make those judgements for people. We can try to mitigate the problems they give rise to for the children. But this is endless.

they don't discriminate against all parents, as men aren't discriminated against in the way way when they become parents.

Yes men are, especially single fathers.

I think single parent should absolutely be added to the list. My childs father helps as much as possible, but as he lives on another continent he obviously cant provide childcare. Luckily this doesnt affect my ability to work my contracted hours as I have an amazing nursery (7am to 7pm opening mon to fri), but if I had a different job it would, and I'm paying through the nose for childcare.

[quote VeniceQueen2004]@lemonTT

As to the OPs situation. She has a bad employer and her children have a bad father

You have absolutely NO idea about the OP's children's father. None. There might be any number of reasons he isn't able to help. He might be a front line doctor. He might be stuck abroad. He might be on active service in the military. He might be living with his elderly parents and shielding. He might be dead.

She hasn't mentioned him at all (I've checked). What a rude, presumptuous, idiotic thing to say.[/quote]
If he’s dead then I apologise.

All the other scenarios are choices. And I don’t need a lecture on any of those scenarios because I am more than familiar with them.

And im half waiting for someone to tell I should never have had a baby with a foreigner.

PlanDeRaccordement that's a (another) separate issue.

Single parents are also likely discriminated against, but not all parents are single. There are also big differences between shared parenting and doing it all on your todd.

I say 'likely' because there aren't many stats to make this argument, although we all know that it's likely true.

But there is plenty of data to show that women get paid on average 1/5 less than men, that the higher tiers of organisations have fewer women, that women make far fewer contributions to their pension schemes, that women do the bulk of house work, childcare and 'wife work' etc.

So if men are discriminated against when they become parents, it would seem that the same consequences of discrimination don't occur.

Which means that maybe they're discriminated against much, much less.

@LemonTT

*If he’s dead then I apologise.

All the other scenarios are choices. And I don’t need a lecture on any of those scenarios because I am more than familiar with them.*

So the choice to be a front line doctor in the middle of a massive public health crisis makes someone a bad father???

@LemonTT

But we don’t encourage people to have a child in every circumstance and situation. There are good times and bad times to have children. There are good situations and bad situations in which to have a child. And sometimes it’s best for some people not to have children at all.

You do understnad that the children we are talking about right now are not still in utero, yes? Because people had them a long time before a global pandemic and consequent total shutdown of both the public, private and intrafamilial childcare network was an issue people were able to be concerned about?

Perhaps @LemonTT thinks I should retrospectively abort my three year old in the light of new information

I think part of the problem is that as a society we’ve come to expect someone else to pick up the tab when things go wrong. In some cases it makes societal and economic sense but we’ve somehow ended up in a place where folk expect every situation to be legislated for by someone else. This was apparent in threads where folk with significant savings still wanted to claim benefits, the unfairness of the furlough system, and in recent threads about weight where folk are suggesting we give folk baskets of essentials (including balsamic vinegar 🙄) if they’re don’t have funds to do it themselves.

I decided to have children, my DH and I have had to be flexible on how we care for our kids, and our income has certainly taken a hit. My work productivity has taken a hit, my sanity too but I decided to have kids.

We can’t have it all - that’s an utter lie, you can’t raise children well, perform to a high standard at work and work the hours needed to progress your career without very good, flexible childcare and some decent family support. This situation has highlighted the fallacy that we can do everything equally well. What’s needed is an acceptance of that amongst parents so they work between them to keep things covered at home and more secure working conditions for all employees.

So the choice to be a front line doctor in the middle of a massive public health crisis makes someone a bad father???

We don’t know anything about the OPs partner - that’s a complete straw man.

@Jellycatspyjamas

We can’t have it all - that’s an utter lie, you can’t raise children well, perform to a high standard at work and work the hours needed to progress your career without very good, flexible childcare and some decent family support. This situation has highlighted the fallacy that we can do everything equally well. What’s needed is an acceptance of that amongst parents so they work between them to keep things covered at home and more secure working conditions for all employees.

This is exactly what is being asked for though. Secure working conditions should include an acknowledgement by workplaces that when parents are being forced into full-time childcare their productivity will take a hit and account for that. Not just to expect business as usual, or expect the employee to take the financial burden of unpaid leave (especially when they may still be paying at least in part for childcare provision they can't access!).

Becoming a parent is not a decision we make when thinking 'but what if I was all alone in a post-apocalyptic landscape, would it still be a good idea to have kids?' We assume (to an extent) the availability of childcare and our own ability to secure an income. We have to assume less than the worst case scenario or no-one would ever have kids.

@Jellycatspyjamas

So the choice to be a front line doctor in the middle of a massive public health crisis makes someone a bad father???
We don’t know anything about the OPs partner - that’s a complete straw man.

No, we don't. that is exactly my point. LemonTT has assumed on the basis of nothing whatsoever that he's a shit dad.

Why should the business carry the financial burden though? No I didn’t plan to have kids during a pandemic, but I did consider that one of us could become unwell and unable to work, that one of us might lose our job, that our kids might not cope with childcare provision and the strategies we had in place for those eventualities covered much of what happened in lockdown. I certainly didn’t expect to be paid for not working, and I expect to pull my weight while I am working, for the hours I’m contracted to. My employer shouldn’t need to take a financial hit because I have kids.

@Luaper you started another thread about people with children being discriminated against when applying for jobs and I disagreed then. I disagree now. Stop starting petitions when you haven't researched the content and fallout in full

Regarding choice. I chose to become a parent. I had my 2 little ones when I was married, we had jobs, a mortgage, childcare all sorted and things ran smoothly. I did not choose what happened next, I would have been insane to. It's left me a lone parent and still picking up the pieces almost 3 years on. Things are much more challenging now and about to be worse due to the council allocating my youngest DS a place at a different school to his brother for September (both primary age), at opposite ends of town. So while having children is a choice I do think there is sometimes a case for lone parenthood being a protected characteristic when it is the result of something deeply traumatic that was out of the parent's control.

@MehMehMeow

I agree with *@MadMadMad* *@NailsNeedDoing* *@MilkTwoSugarsThanks* Your employer is paying you to deliver output If your ability to deliver output has changed due to your personal situation then your employer is right to be unhappy If you cannot deliver the work you were hired to do, you need to be having a conversation with your employer not demanding legal protections. I’ve been in situations where I’ve been expected to work late, adapt my life around other families, and pick up the slack from parents unable to balance their family demands/overtly favoured parents and it’s thankless and taken for granted. It’s now part of the questions I ask at interviews as ‘flexible working policies’ can translate into “you’ll be expected to take on extra work to cover the parents in the team” and ‘family friendly’ can equate to “families don’t count if you’re childless”

Exactly that last part.