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Petition for third spaces - Fionne & Miranda

41 replies

Hamster00 · 25/11/2019 12:08

I think this is a wonderful idea. Finally a bit of sense. Feel free to sign and circulate.
www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

We are Fionne Orlander and Miranda Yardley, both of us transwomen. We recognise that we, as transwomen, are biologically male; we are not the same as women and our lives differ from those lived by women. We are asking you to support our call for the provision of Third Spaces for transgender individuals of both sexes.

We as transwomen share concerns with women, we share a need for dignity and privacy when using public spaces such as washrooms and changing rooms, and specifically we are concerned about the risk to us of abusive behaviour and physical and sexual assault when sharing single-sex spaces with other males.

In recognising our lives are different from women’s lives, we recognise and support single sex spaces for women, and support the right of women’s organisations under the Equality Act to provide services exclusively to women and girls, who may in a number of circumstances have lived under fear of or experienced physical or sexual violence at the hands of men, who overwhelmingly commit the majority of physical and sexual violence.

In recognition that women should have access to single sex spaces, and in recognition of our own concern and fear of using single sex spaces designated for males, we call on all political parties to recognise the need for the provision of publicly funded third spaces for transgender individuals of either sex, to allow us to participate fully in public life without imposing ourselves on those single sex places presently enjoyed by women.

Specifically we call for publicly funded Third Spaces in respect of the following:

  • Public washrooms and changing rooms, including those at schools, leisure centres and other publicly funded institutions;
  • Hospital wards and other NHS facilities that are presently single sex;
  • Prisons, remand centres and all other parts of HM Prison Service;
  • For the provision of relief centres for transgender individuals who have been physically or sexually assaulted, or who are fleeing or need protection from abusive partners.

Please commit to providing Third Spaces for transgender people of either sex.

Thank you

Fionne Orlander

OP posts:
happydappy2 · 25/11/2019 15:37

I think it’s a step in the right direction, but I would hope that in the future we have better treatment for gender dysphoria that will alleviate the suffering of individuals, in a way that does not affirm them in the opposite sex.

LilyMumsnet · 25/11/2019 17:36

Hi folks,

We're just moving this over to the petitions noticeboard. Flowers

Michelleoftheresistance · 25/11/2019 17:37

I see a difference between 'a right to dress, present and identify any way I want' and 'a right to be a woman in every way in women's spaces with no rights of separation permitted to biological females'.

Third spaces honour the safety, privacy and dignity aspects while removing any need to use women's spaces. Third spaces can also house the women lining up to say how thrilled they are to share with men, but this is a way to continue to provide single sex spaces for women who need them and will lose access to any space if every space must be mixed sex.

It's the obvious compromise that meets everyone's need.

RuffleCrow · 25/11/2019 17:40

Sounds good to me.

RuffleCrow · 25/11/2019 17:50

i think the takeup either of the spaces or the petition will be limited to those with these sorts of good intentions but it's a start.

Gertrudesgarden · 26/11/2019 08:09

I'm all for the idea of third, truly neutral, spaces. Why not? As long as male and female spaces are not messed with, it seems a good solution. I'd wonder about the motives of anyone on the rainbow spectrum who found it distasteful.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/11/2019 08:26

I see a difference between 'a right to dress, present and identify any way I want' and 'a right to be a woman in every way in women's spaces with no rights of separation permitted to biological females'.

Yes.

DingDongMerrilyOnThigh · 06/12/2019 10:56
MrsL2016 · 01/03/2020 16:04

Signed after being signposted by another user on another thread about toilets.

SleepyNightOwl · 01/03/2020 18:14

I think this is good. Those that disagree with it clearly want to use being trans for nefarious reasons.

EyesOpening · 27/06/2020 16:38

@Michelleoftheresistance

I see a difference between 'a right to dress, present and identify any way I want' and 'a right to be a woman in every way in women's spaces with no rights of separation permitted to biological females'.

Third spaces honour the safety, privacy and dignity aspects while removing any need to use women's spaces. Third spaces can also house the women lining up to say how thrilled they are to share with men, but this is a way to continue to provide single sex spaces for women who need them and will lose access to any space if every space must be mixed sex.

It's the obvious compromise that meets everyone's need.

I'm glad you posted this as I was getting very confused with your previous comments!
Herja · 05/07/2020 21:55

I support this and have happily signed. I do not campaign for single sex provision to fuck up the lives of transpeople, but to safeguard the lives of women. To my mind a third space does this job nicely.

I support the right of anyone, to live the life they wish, so long as this doesn't impinge on the rights of others to do the same. A balance must be found in this. One that protects women, safeguards children from nutters like Mermaids, but still treats transpeople with dignity. Every step that can achieve this is one I support.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2021 10:23

Bump

youkiddingme · 29/12/2021 18:35

happy to sign and share

PearlclutchersInc · 30/12/2021 17:45

I've signed as its a decent solution; although I strongly suspect that, as now, the disabled loos, will take the hit.

Binglebong · 30/12/2021 18:15

@Herja

I support this and have happily signed. I do not campaign for single sex provision to fuck up the lives of transpeople, but to safeguard the lives of women. To my mind a third space does this job nicely.

I support the right of anyone, to live the life they wish, so long as this doesn't impinge on the rights of others to do the same. A balance must be found in this. One that protects women, safeguards children from nutters like Mermaids, but still treats transpeople with dignity. Every step that can achieve this is one I support.

Well said. I've signed but it's not getting much traction. It would do better if it was on the government petition site - change.org has no influence.
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