"an historic election"

[littledawley]

I was taught (I'm guessing incorrectly) that you used 'an' when the next word began with a vowel (an elephant, an exciting trip, a lovely day etc) but today have heard lots of "this is an historic day" - please can someone explain? (Slowly, as if to a child...)

Some old farts sticklers like the use of 'an' where the word begins with an 'h'. I was taught that was 'correct' as a kid, but apparently it is not necessary (according to Sir Stephen of Fry) and is merely an affectation.

So the vowel thing is correct and the 'h' debatable?

Madamdeathstare - love it!

Yes, littledawley, exactly.

Being pedantic, as it is pedants' corner, 'an historic' is correct. It reflects the fact that certain words beginning with 'h' were originally French, so the letter 'h' would be silent, therefore to all intents and purposes the word began with a vowel.

However, nowadays, we always pronounce the 'h', therefore 'an' sounds clumsy, so is not used in day-to-day speech.

You can use either, but if you're writing something very formal probably best to stick to the technically correct.

Thanks all - great explanation Because, it shows that MadamDeath's explanation wasn't far off!!

(Don't think I've posted here before and, after much deliberation, I'm still concerned that my last post needed a semi-colon!!)

"An historical" is correct.

It's because history comes from the Greek istoria - the i took an aspirate, which was translated into an h in English, French etc. Same with hysteria, histology etc.

Chances are whenever you post in PC you'll make some kind of mistake!!!

Meh - not sure about "correct" because of historical origins. If that was the case for everything, we'd still have full case endings and the ge- prefix for the past ppl. If the "h" is pronounced, then "an" runs counter to the natural pronuciation and is therefore odd. "historical" etc usually now have the H pronounced, so "a" would be "correct".

You really can't apply the word origins rule to justify an oddity for one word, but merrily ignore spelling, semantic, grammatical and syntactic shifts all over the place in the rest of the language.

Or if you do, I vote we bring back "clomb".

Agree HamShine, it sounds very odd now and "a historical" is accepted usage. I suppose I should have written that it is also correct, given that the OP was wondering whether "an historical" was incorrect.

Thus proving Because's point!

Btw, do let's bring back "clomb", I've no idea what it means, but it sounds wonderful.

I love 'clomb'

With H words, 'an' often sounds correct though, unless you lengthen the 'a'.

'A', as in bat, sounds wrong, but 'A' as in 'rate' sounds better. I like 'An' in formal speech, which a news report is.

Preterite of climb, BI. Climbed is one of those words where the tense marker of the strong verb changed by analogy with the weak verb pattern. But clomb reflects the Anglo-Saxon origins of the strong verb. So it is, by analogy with the "an historic" argument above, "correct". And all Latin loan words should have Latin plural endings - not just those funny little datum, referendum, medium things.

"Correct" is a bit of a difficult term when it comes to language use - you have to accept that "correctness" as in "generally accepted in formal langauge" is very fluid, and what was "correct" 10 years ago may be essentially obsolete today.

Well liking something better is fine - some things do just work better articulation-wise - the "h" thing is tricky and may be v dependent on accent, prosody, etc.

Believe me, it is correct. (I know, because I write "an urine sample" at work )

Why, LS? Why would you write that? It's just not pretty.

Do they make you?

But isn't "u" a vowel, so it should be "an urine sample" under the general rule?

No, because it's about pronunciation, not spelling, and the initial sound of urine is "y" if you think about it, which is not a vowel (in this instance). I assumed LS was joking...

No, not joking .

Read Michael Ondaatje in "The Cinnamon Peeler".

Well, don't have that to hand right now, LS - can you explain more? You're awfully cryptic.

"Why, LS? Why would you write that? It's just not pretty."
"Do they make you?"

I heart mumsnet

And I wouldn't say an hotel, but I might say an historical - cos it's historical, innit?

it's to do with the stress

if the stress of the word beginning with 'h' is not on the first syllable you say 'an' (as in 'an historical', 'an hotel'), but if it is on the first syllable you say 'a' (like 'a history of Britain')

Not sure of the origin, but that was the rule I was taught