Debrett's-style title question

[MrsBadger]

(go with me on this)

Your father is Lord Badger, Marquis of Sleasby
You are therefore born Lady Wilhelmina Badger.

You marry George Weasel, Earl of Coddingham
and therefore become Lady Coddingham
but
then he divorces you and remarries

You are obv no longer Lady Coddingham as there is a new one
but do you
a) revert to your maiden name and style (Lady Badger)
b) retain your married surname but revert to your maiden style (Lady Weasel)

answers on a postcard before this wretched party on Saturday...

silverfrog - I can see two solutions, so take your pick:

1. Officially renounce your titles and tell the passport office that you are no longer [title] and therefore need new passports to reflect your commoner status.

2. Embrace your inner chav and start referring to your DD as [title] rather than her first name. If people query you about it, you could tell them it's an oblique homage to Catch 22 - you know, Major Major.

am a bit tbh, theyoungvisitor

1. there is no reason for us to give up our title. it is an ancient title, and it brings with it a lot of family history. to renounce it just because someone in an office somewhere has decided that we do not have a standard name and it doesn't fit into a standard format (despite many passports actually contradicting this "fact") - would you change your name because a faceless someone thought you should (and the basis for their reasoning was that your name is not "usual")

2. double really. would you, in all honesty, just let a government office somewhere choose your dcs names? dd2's name is all correct on her birth cert, and indeed on the actual Register of births. But the passport office, in their wisdom, have decided to change it, and are saying that, despite us having 3 other dcs all with the same issue who have their names correct on passports, there is no other possible outcome for dd2's passport...

err, triple silverfrog - you do realise I was joking right?

Of course I wasn't seriously suggesting you change your DD's name. I know there's some odd advice on MN but in the spirit of a light-hearted thread I thought it was fairly obvious that I was giving a light-hearted answer!

However - serious answer:

1. If it was their mistake and you have a copy of the form to prove you filled it in correctly, I would have thought they would be obliged to correct it for free - after all this is NOT her legal name so technically she is travelling on false documents if she goes abroad with this, and might be in trouble if challenged (highly unlikely but possible)
2. If you filled out the form wrongly and put her title in the name box then I can see that they might be unwilling to correct it for free, but in that case surely you can apply for a change of name and have a new passport issued for a fee? After all you have all the necessary documentation to prove that her name really is x

Also, did you fill it in online? There is far less potential for fuckups that way as the info is transmitted exactly as you type it into the box.

Hth. And a last for luck...

sorry, theyoungvisitor, was being a bit touchy earlier. your advice was pretty much exactly the same as what the passport office tell us every month when we try yet again to sort it out (although, to be fair, they don't actually ask us to embrace our inner chav - but they do audibly shudder when I ask them if they really think I'd name my dd that ) and touched a nerve. sorry. poor dd2 has had her passport in the wrong name for over 2 years now, as we keep getting shunted from office to office. the passport office has advised us that dd2 should indeed travel under a false name...

we are sadly stuck in a loop between offices. the passport office blames the registry office, and vice versa.

dd2's name is correct on all things at the registry. the problem lies in her birth cert, which printed along with title. this is the only way her cert could be printed, according to the registry office. (computerisation has hit since our other 3 children were registered - they all have hand written birth certs) - a classic case of computer stuff up, tbh.

we cannot get another birth cert, as the info on the register is correct - there is nothing to be amended. a second cert would say the same as the first one.

the passport office say her title shouldn't be on the cert and since it is there, the only option they have is to use it as her first name, despite her name appearing on the register correctly...

we sent all the info to the passport office, filled in forms correctly, etc, but they ignored all this in favour of putting dd2's title as her first name. they have since claimed that ti is impossible to put titles in passports (despite us having 6 other passports within out family that say a very different thing...)

you just can't get a straight answer out of them.

how very, very bizarre! What a classic "computer says no" scenario.

Not surprised you are frustrated.

I didn't realise you could put titles on birth certificates - I thought you didn't because they were hereditary and therefore changed (so Lord X is only lord X until his father dies, whereupon he becomes the Duke of Z for eg). But just goes to show what I know - ie 0

ah well, you see, there is the problem.

titles don't appear on birth certs. at least, not in the name bit.

BUT

the title is a foreign one, and dd2's name is actually along the lines of "silver, lady tadpole" - the title being part of the surname. it is recorded on the other children's birht certs in this way.

when it came to dd2, the man in th office got all excited, because he got to try out the new system (literally installed the week before!)

it has drop down menus for title (expecting the standard Miss, Mr, etc), adn our title was there. so it was selected. and that was that, really. all fine, and entered correctly. we all triple checked it, because apparently, with a computer entry to the register, there si no way to amend it later

and then the cert was printed, and we looked at it and asked whether the title being printed would be a problem. yer man trotted off to check, and the answer came back as "that's what the computer printed, so it must be ok"

and then the passport office decided to be awkward...

so we are stuck with not being able to amend dd2's name on the register (1 becasue it is a computer entry and 2 because it is correct anyway)

we cannot get another cert which says anyhting differetn because the computer will always print the same thing again. there is possibly a programming issue here, but I don't think the registry office is going to re-write their whole system just for dd2.

and we apparently cannot get a passport in dd2's actual name. and to add insult to injury, her passport also more or less acuses her of trying to use a title in a fraudulant way...

it really is enough to make you want to change your name

how utterly utterly mad.

Well, my last and final suggestion (slightly tongue in cheek ) is that you go on You and Yours or similar consumer programme with "my passport tale of woe - why my daughter is being forced into a life of FRAUD and MISREPRESENTATION by UK passport officials".

You might find if the bbc get involved it a) comes to light that there are more people than you think in this boat and b) mysteriously gets sorted

(but appreciate you probably don't want the publicity... or the hassle for that matter)

the maddest bit is we have to always remember to book all dd2's travel docs in the wrong name so that they match her passport...

we have had to get tickets amended a couple fo times because we have forgotten - try explaining to a humourless tickting office rep that you had forgotten that your dd is not actually called what you thought she was called...

we have thought about getting press involved.

we have currently settled for hasslign them a LOT, and are about to move up into legal advice on it all but it is such a hassle.

ah I know who you need

that awful journo currently on Media Requests with 'Does your 2yo insist on wearing designer clothes?'

She would get you into Take a Break faster that you could say Princess Tiamii
[rummages]

here you go

You may find yourself pictured under the headline 'My Princess's Passport Hell' or similar though...

Come the revolution there'll be no need for all this titular etiquette nonsense. I can't believe it goes on in this day and egde.

Egde? Edge? Obviously I mean age.

Didn't Princess Anne get rid of her kids' titles?

I think she thought it was all a bit silly.

She might be right.

Egde is surely how somebody with a title would say age anyway.

Princess Anne aka The Princess Royal do you mean?

Anne's children never had titles to start with. They were not entitled to any...in as much as anyone is.

I thought she decided not to give them titles?

But no Campion, obviously if she did she didn't renounce her own at the same time! Although would have been funny if she had.