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Pedants' corner

Can someone please explain

18 replies

StealthPolarBear · 17/03/2009 21:11

When I should use "learnt" and when I should use "learned"?
There are a few verbs like that but I can't think of other examples (slept and sleeped are the only ones I can think of - think I may need some sleep ), feel free to mention them.

OP posts:
Othersideofthechannel · 17/03/2009 21:12

Hmm, never seen 'sleeped' but have seen 'dreamt and dreamed'

RustyBear · 17/03/2009 21:13

According to the Oxford dictionary, they are just alternatives.

I don't actually think sleeped is a word, though....

tigerdriver · 17/03/2009 21:14

I think it's "I learnt that at school"

"my learned friend".

StealthPolarBear · 17/03/2009 21:14

No, sleeped is totally wrong, but my muddled mind kept giving me them no matter how much I told it it was being stupid
Wonder if I was thinking of dreamt and dreamed then

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 17/03/2009 21:15

I understand the "my learned friend" thing (but shouldn't the second e strictly have an accent?) but I'm sure I've seen people on here moan about people getting these wrong.

OP posts:
Amapoleon · 17/03/2009 21:16

Earned earnt is another one. I think it is an Americanism that has been accepted into British English.

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2009 21:16

they're just alternate possibilities. You can use either.

Alternates are:
Dreamed/Dreamt
Spelled/Spelt
Leaned/Leant
etc etc

Ones where only one is correct:
Felt
Slept
Kept
Lent

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2009 21:19

The exception is of course as others have said where learned is used as an adjective - you can say "I learned/learnt French at school" but you can only say "My French teacher was a very learned woman"

StealthPolarBear · 17/03/2009 21:19

Thanks tyv
Glad I haven't been getting it wrong

OP posts:
theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2009 21:21

sometimes people moan wrongly - I saw someone get corrected for writing "spelt" but it's actually a perfectly correct version. Spelt is slightly more British and slightly more old-fashioned, spelled is slightly more American and slightly more standard these days.

RustyBear · 17/03/2009 21:24

I would say 'That was a learnt behaviour', but 'He learned how to do it.'
But I don't think that's necessarily the 'right' way to use it, just that I consistently do.

Also 'I burned the letter' but 'There was burnt paper on the floor', 'I spoiled the soup' but 'The soup was spoilt' (But I would say 'The soup was spoiled by StealthPolarBear')

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2009 21:27

as a small piece of trivia - dreamt is apparently the only word in the English language to end in -mt. (Unless you want to be pedantic and count undreamt as a separate word).

I think generally -t endings are more British but they are being phased out by people's natural tendency to gravitate towards standard -ed forms, and because spell-checks often don't recognise them.

theyoungvisiter · 17/03/2009 21:31

Look, the Oxford Dictionary people have a special FAQ about this very subject, entitled "what is the difference between learned and learnt?"

So obviously not the only people to wonder about this

RustyBear · 17/03/2009 21:45

I saw that,youngvisiter. In fact I linked to it earlier on this thread...

Housemum · 17/03/2009 21:50

I thought splet was something Gillian McKeith tried to make people eat...

This topic has always confused me, in that I usually get the right version but I couldn't explain why.

It's funny how we assume that the "odd" looking -t is wrong, yet that is more "British" in the same way that words ending in "-ize" is more British but "-ise" looks right now.

Yurtgirl · 17/03/2009 21:54

I started a thread a few weeks ago asking about the difference between - leapt and leaped

Are the differences between learnt and learned the same???

RustyBear · 17/03/2009 22:03

I think there used to be more verbs of this type - Jane Austen used 'stept' and I think a couple of others I can't remember now,which don't get used nowadays.

theyoungvisiter · 18/03/2009 09:28

sorry Rustybear! I had assumed that was just a link to the definition - oops

Basically before spelling was standardised you could often use -t or -ed interchangeably according to what your particular pronunciation was. (Or indeed -ize and -ise).

Some of these variations have been maintained, others have been ironed out - for eg in Austenian English you can write Shew or Show, Chuse or Choose, whichever you prefer, but obviously today only Show and Choose are correct.

I expect we'll all agree on a version one day but life will be a bit more boring then!

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