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Pedants' corner
Original poster

If I were a boy - Beyonce

35 replies

Neenztwinz · 25/11/2008 09:41

Shouldn't it be "If I was a boy"?

I see this quite a lot and it always seems wrong but I see it so often I wonder if it is right.

eg 'If he were going to take the job at the bank...' Surely it should be 'If he was going to take the job at the bank...', because you would say 'He was going to take the job at the bank'.

OP posts:
CountessDracula · 25/11/2008 09:44

We usually use the subjunctive "were" instead of "was" after if (and other words with similar meaning)

The "were" form is correct at all times but you can use "was" in an informal situation

more info here

Dior · 25/11/2008 09:45

Message withdrawn

CoteDAzur · 25/11/2008 09:48

I would agree with "If I were a boy".

It's subjunctive, isn't it?

Like:
"I insist doors be locked" (not "are")
"If I were a rich man. Da dee da dee dee dum etc" (not "was")

CountessDracula · 25/11/2008 09:49

shit song though

RamblingRosa · 25/11/2008 11:39

I agree. "Were" is the subjunctive and is correct. Is that the song she played on Strictly Come Dancing the other week? God, that was awful.

Original poster
Neenztwinz · 25/11/2008 13:08

Thanks, like I said I see it so much I thought it must be right and as a sub-editor I really should know!

OP posts:
DumbledoresGirl · 25/11/2008 13:11

Great song. Love it.

PuppyMonkey · 25/11/2008 13:12

Where I live (East Mids) "were" and "was" are misused dreadfully..

"You was walking down the road."

"They was walking down the road."

"I were dead annoyed."

Aaaaaaaah!

PortAndLemon · 25/11/2008 13:22

Were is correct. In fact, I almost want to buy this song (which I've not heard) right now on principle to encourage the proper use of the subjunctive; this area of grammar is sadly abused in pop songs.

Surely DH and I cannot be the only pedants who can't resist shouting at the stereo to correct the grammar every time "What If God Was One Of Us?" comes on ("were one of us, you illiterate fools...")? Or perhaps we can...

I've also been unable to bring myself to buy the otherwise lovely No Matter What for the DCs because of its repetition of "...if I was...". Mind you, in my most obsessive moments I have thought about buying it and then just going to town with some Tipp-Ex and a Sharpie marker.

BoccaDellaVerita · 25/11/2008 13:27

The correct use of the subjunctive. They don't make them like that any more!

RamblingRosa · 25/11/2008 13:28

PortandLemon - "Were" is correct but I have to disagree with you about "Was" being wrong. The subjunctive is so rarely used in English (unlike languages like French and Spanish where it's very common) that I think that the "If I was...." construction has come to be accepted as correct as well (especially in informal situations). Sorry, I'm a pedant but a liberal pedant . Personally I use "were" though.

PortAndLemon · 25/11/2008 13:32

I know that in a generation the subjunctive will be dead and buried. I know that language evolves and changes, and that overall that's a good thing. However, it's supposed to evolve and change against a background of pedantic old duffers fighting a valiant rearguard action and complaining about the changes, so I feel that I am playing a valuable role in the whole process.

DumbledoresGirl · 25/11/2008 13:36

On Radio 2 right now P&L!

DumbledoresGirl · 25/11/2008 13:36

On Radio 2 right now P&L!

BoccaDellaVerita · 25/11/2008 13:36

portandlemon - indeed. I want my child to learn Latin just so that she will know and love the subjunctive.

DumbledoresGirl · 25/11/2008 13:36

Oops

Original poster
Neenztwinz · 25/11/2008 14:01

Wow, and I thought I was a pedant. Compared to you lot I am an amateur

OP posts:
RamblingRosa · 25/11/2008 14:22

I know PortandLemon. I do love the subjunctive myself and I do use it (and will teach DD to use it) but it doesn't bother me when other people use the "if if was" construction. I don't think it's something that is creeping in. I think it's something that crept in quite a long time ago and is now accepted, especially in informal speech.

UnquietDad · 25/11/2008 14:27

The grammar is correct. The song is awful.

PortAndLemon · 25/11/2008 14:42

I don't think the usage is creeping in (I agree that it's pretty much crept); I do think that acceptance of the usage is widening. Without picking on Neenztwinz, would a sub-editor a generation ago have been so unfamiliar with the use of the subjunctive that she didn't recognise it when she saw it?

The general trend in language is for complicated rules of grammar to gradually simplify (The Unfolding of Language is fascinating on this). Now that the simpler alternative to the subjunctive is widely accepted, it's almost inconceivable that the subjunctive will survive much longer.

RamblingRosa · 25/11/2008 14:45

I agree I actually think that if you did a straw poll of people in the street/in your office/at the pub/wherever you'd find that the majority of people wouldn't have a clue what the subjunctive is, let alone when it should be used. I could be wrong. Or maybe I'm mixing with the wrong people . I know my DP wouldn't know!

duchesse · 25/11/2008 14:48

"If I were" is perfectly correct, if a little neglected these days (wrongly imo). It's the very underused but still alive subjunctive.

Your version would (and often does) make me bristle.

duchesse · 25/11/2008 14:49

Also I remember giving Beyonce a mental tick and smiley face the other day when I chanced to hear her song.

ILiketoMarmiteMarmite · 25/11/2008 14:52

If I were a carpenter
And you were a laydeeee

bagsforlife · 25/11/2008 19:49

Well done Beyonce. I bet she has no idea she is an expert on the subjunctive tense.