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Pedants' corner

"Laying"

25 replies

Gettingbysomehow · 06/12/2025 02:18

If I see sodding laying one more time I'll disappear in a puff of angry smoke.
You were not laying under a tree unless you were laying eggs. You were lying down ffs.
I am lying on the bed.
My hen is laying an egg.
I was lying under a tree.
A duck was laying an egg under a tree.
I will be lying down later.
I may never lie down because I am not tired.
The exception is....my grandfather was laid to rest.
Pack it in.

OP posts:
Georgiepud · 06/12/2025 02:35

Agree.

PennyRest · 06/12/2025 02:43

Yes. Absolutely agree. See also ‘I was sat’ and ‘I led down for a nap’.

Yamahahaha · 10/12/2025 15:21

PennyRest · 06/12/2025 02:43

Yes. Absolutely agree. See also ‘I was sat’ and ‘I led down for a nap’.

Indeed.

And also "I was led in bed." You can be led to the bed, I guess, but it's pretty difficult to be led in it.

I suppose "I was laid in bed" could be correct if you meant you were getting laid in bed as opposed to on the kitchen table or up against the washing machine.

QwestSprout · 10/12/2025 15:36

Led is a dialectical pronunciation variation of the verb to lie. No one who uses it thinks they're using the verb to lead. It's just a vowel variation of /e/ instead of /eɪ/.

People confusing the verbs to lie and to lay is nothing new, they're one of the most confused pairs. As long as the intended meaning has been imparted by the speaker or writer I really don't see the issue.

HoppityBun · 10/12/2025 15:38

Hens lay eggs. That’s the end of the matter as far as I’m concerned.

DappledThings · 10/12/2025 15:45

Yep, hate it. Alongside I was sat. Or "myself was sat on the sofa" for extra pain.

Treaclewell · 10/12/2025 16:21

There is also laying the table, or an item on the bookcase. Or lying about something.
I will avoid any use of these words if at all possible, especially in the past tense. I've tried looking it up, but can't convince myself that any source sounds right.

IdaGlossop · 10/12/2025 16:31

I am a pedant who needs a lay down 😀

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2025 18:04

You lie, you lay a thing.
This can include yourself if you use the archaic form ‘now I lay me down in peace and sleep’

Tallisker · 10/12/2025 18:10

“Roll me over, lay me down and do it again (like the feeling)” 😁

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2025 18:18

Tallisker · 10/12/2025 18:10

“Roll me over, lay me down and do it again (like the feeling)” 😁

Yes, that’s the profane version of my sacred example.Grin

Yamahahaha · 10/12/2025 18:44

QwestSprout · 10/12/2025 15:36

Led is a dialectical pronunciation variation of the verb to lie. No one who uses it thinks they're using the verb to lead. It's just a vowel variation of /e/ instead of /eɪ/.

People confusing the verbs to lie and to lay is nothing new, they're one of the most confused pairs. As long as the intended meaning has been imparted by the speaker or writer I really don't see the issue.

While I agree that meaning is paramount, as someone who uses words such as "dialectical" and who clearly knows about phonetics and grammar (despite the comma splice), I am sceptical that you would apply that philosophy to your own writing or that you wouldn't prefer to read text which isn't full of errors.

IdaGlossop · 10/12/2025 19:04

Yamahahaha · 10/12/2025 18:44

While I agree that meaning is paramount, as someone who uses words such as "dialectical" and who clearly knows about phonetics and grammar (despite the comma splice), I am sceptical that you would apply that philosophy to your own writing or that you wouldn't prefer to read text which isn't full of errors.

How much I have enjoyed your double negative! I love double negatives because they remind me of a great aunt who I said to me when I was four and spending the day with her and her brother in their flat: 'Just because you are sitting on the lavatory, Ida, doesn't mean I don't expect you to have a straight back.'

HellsBells13 · 10/12/2025 19:14

I stop listening or reading when I hear/ read the following... Oh lord, my anger ... I seen it😡 It's effected me 😡 I done it 😡 What has happened to our beautiful language.

upinaballoon · 11/12/2025 13:42

Yamahahaha · 10/12/2025 15:21

Indeed.

And also "I was led in bed." You can be led to the bed, I guess, but it's pretty difficult to be led in it.

I suppose "I was laid in bed" could be correct if you meant you were getting laid in bed as opposed to on the kitchen table or up against the washing machine.

c.f. Kevin Costner in 'Bull Durham'. you just brought that back to my mind.

Oneearringlost · 11/12/2025 14:06

IdaGlossop · 10/12/2025 19:04

How much I have enjoyed your double negative! I love double negatives because they remind me of a great aunt who I said to me when I was four and spending the day with her and her brother in their flat: 'Just because you are sitting on the lavatory, Ida, doesn't mean I don't expect you to have a straight back.'

This reminds me of the Just William story, where William gets round his father's refusal to allow him a birthday party.

"Father, may I have a birthday party?"
"No, William"

After some thought, and remembering his English lesson, at school...

"Father, did you say I could have a birthday party?"
"No, William, I did not!".

Double negative = affirmative. William organises himself his birthday party.

QwestSprout · 18/12/2025 13:52

Yamahahaha · 10/12/2025 18:44

While I agree that meaning is paramount, as someone who uses words such as "dialectical" and who clearly knows about phonetics and grammar (despite the comma splice), I am sceptical that you would apply that philosophy to your own writing or that you wouldn't prefer to read text which isn't full of errors.

Oh my usage of commas has long been a source of consternation in my papers - I write like a Victorian when I'm not held in check.
I'm a descriptivist linguist, I wouldn't personally write like it but I wouldn't comment on it unless you're actually meant to be writing in academic register.

Yamahahaha · 18/12/2025 14:56

QwestSprout · 18/12/2025 13:52

Oh my usage of commas has long been a source of consternation in my papers - I write like a Victorian when I'm not held in check.
I'm a descriptivist linguist, I wouldn't personally write like it but I wouldn't comment on it unless you're actually meant to be writing in academic register.

I know you can't examine the field of linguistics if you eschew descriptivism, but my issue with it is how do you know what words actually mean if their meaning is predicated on everyone's (often erroneous) usage?

Words like "literally" and "disinterested" - and even terms like "transphobic".

Gettingbysomehow · 18/12/2025 15:00

Even the times had an article with laying in it. Russia might as well nuke us all now.

OP posts:
Yamahahaha · 18/12/2025 15:03

Treaclewell · 10/12/2025 16:21

There is also laying the table, or an item on the bookcase. Or lying about something.
I will avoid any use of these words if at all possible, especially in the past tense. I've tried looking it up, but can't convince myself that any source sounds right.

I lie (down), I lay, I was lying
I lay (the table), I laid, I was laying
I lie (about whether you look fat), I lied, I was lying

AyeKarumba · 02/01/2026 14:55

💯

HoppityBun · 04/01/2026 14:02

Yamahahaha · 18/12/2025 15:03

I lie (down), I lay, I was lying
I lay (the table), I laid, I was laying
I lie (about whether you look fat), I lied, I was lying

I agree but I also remember the prayer “Now I lay me down to sleep”, which I assumed is Victorian but apparently goes back to the C17

RescueMeFromThisSilliness · 04/01/2026 14:07

PennyRest · 06/12/2025 02:43

Yes. Absolutely agree. See also ‘I was sat’ and ‘I led down for a nap’.

Well you can say 'I was sat' as long as it was someone else who took hold of you and placed you there.

Yamahahaha · 04/01/2026 14:17

HoppityBun · 04/01/2026 14:02

I agree but I also remember the prayer “Now I lay me down to sleep”, which I assumed is Victorian but apparently goes back to the C17

It's the "me" which is important in that sentence. "To lay", if used correctly, is transitive (as in "I lay the plates on the table"). In this example it's being used reflexively so it's almost like saying "I lay myself". That makes it sound rather archaic, but then it is from the C17!

HoppityBun · 04/01/2026 16:58

Yamahahaha · 04/01/2026 14:17

It's the "me" which is important in that sentence. "To lay", if used correctly, is transitive (as in "I lay the plates on the table"). In this example it's being used reflexively so it's almost like saying "I lay myself". That makes it sound rather archaic, but then it is from the C17!

Thank you. In all honesty I did wonder if there was something reflexive going on there but whilst I have an ear for grammar, I can’t hold the explanations in my head very well: I never have been able to.

Having said that, I wonder if perhaps this example gives an inkling of where this usage comes from?

I have no doubt that there are examples of the incorrect usage that we are describing, which go back centuries. Though I feel nervous about “should” and correct versus incorrect, but you know what I mean.

It’s all just so clunking. My own theory is that many people don’t read as widely as we all used to do and also just don’t read as much. I could never get to grips with grammar at school but I read voraciously and that helped me absorb the way that words are used.

Though, as I have said elsewhere on here, it was only Microsoft that taught me what the passive voice is and how to avoid it. And that despite attending a reasonably good school.

Another thing that I found is that “who“ and “whom“ completely passed me by at school. I have no idea whether we were taught about these or not. As I grew into adult food and kept on reading it began to seem more important to me that these should be used correctly because they assist in understanding what’s being talked about. It is interesting to me that those are two words that are also frequently misused and, whilst I can understand why people use “who“ where “whom“ should go, because it is a bit pedantic, it completely confounds me that they will insert “whom“ where it shouldn’t go and cannot hear that it’s incorrect.

We were also told never under any circumstances to start a sentence with “and“ or “but“. I take frank and enduring delight in doing exactly that, as you can see.

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