Radio 3 just now, appalling 😮

[Denim4ever]

The 'expert' the presenter is speaking to just said 'on mass' not 'en masse'. She also keeps failing to pronounce 'the' as 'thee' before a vowel.

What are people imagining ‘on mass’ could possibly mean in English? It doesn’t exist.

Please come back and tell us how you pronounce ‘en masse’, OP?

Do you think it’s ‘en’ to rhyme with ‘pen’? 😂

@FrodoBiggins , but the OP isn't wrong.
It's pronounced 'en mass' not 'on mass'.
[ˌɒ̃ ˈmas] not [ɒn 'mas]

Agreed. I have noticed that punctuation guides use different symbols for 'on' and the 'en' in en masse. Most punctuation recordings sound different too. The 'n' in en is almost or completely missing. It's basically pronounced as French. This is what I am accustomed to hearing too.

I think it's an eggcorn.

I guess …

Misunderstanding of language is getting so much worse. Hurts my head.

This thread has to be a piss take, even for pedants' corner. Talk about niche phrases to get worked up about! 🤣

Oh contraire, it's pedantry at its purest. We have a difference of opinion - en should sound like on, or it shouldn't. I'm in the French camp.

@CremeEggThief , isn't that the point?

In the real world, everyone thinks you're a pedant for pointing out "on route" should be spelled "en route"...

As you were...

Don’t you mean ‘Au contraire’? Sorry but it is pedants’ corner… 😬😂

@CremeEggThief , Untrue. @Denim4ever and I don't think that.

Quite right, but it was tongue in cheek. If on for en is OK, why not oh for au.

Are you sure it wasn’t just her pronunciation? When I pay in Marks & Spencer‘s the automatic voice sounds as though it’s said “payment excepted”. Obviously it not only means but has been instructed to say “payments accepted“. En and on are similar nasal sounds.

But I feel your pain OP. I just hope you’re mistaken.

Mais non! “En” sounds like the first syllable in “entre nous”.

”on” sounds like the first syllable in onomatopoeia.

Exactly this, so it should sound like 'on mass'.

Have I missed something, OP? 🤔

The machine in Tesco said the same. @HoppityBun .
In English, vowels in unstressed syllables tend to be a schwa.
We'd get corrected at school, if we did it, so we'd say ac-cept and ex-cept, not uhc-cept for both.

'En' is pronounced 'on' in Franglais, not in French. The 'n' is much less defined, or even absent, in French. The vowel is flatter and less rounded. @HoppityBun's French 'entre', for example, starts differently to the English 'onto'. Much clearer 'n' in the latter.

But the radio host was speaking English, not French. So even if it's (marginally) different in French I think it's wrong-er to put on a fake French accent to use an expression which is part of English. Just like I don't say "Par-ee" or pronounce "croissant" like the French to when I'm speaking English because I don't want to sound like a dick

Ah, OK ... I know what you mean (I studied French at uni) but it just seems such a nuanced difference that it didn't occur to me that might be what OP meant, especially as 'en masse' was presumably being spoken by a non-native speaker of English. That's helped me understand what OP was getting at, though, so thanks.

I would say the ‘en’ as on but with less of an n sound.

@FrodoBiggins , ' I think it's wrong-er to put on a fake French accent to use an expression which is part of English.'
It's not putting on a fake French accent, and it doesn't compare to saying Paree for Paris.
It's more like saying Rouen as /ˈruːɒ̃, ˈruːɒn/, not Roo-un, or Orléans as ɔːrleɪˈɒ̃ not Or-leenz.

If you’re set on being pedantic make sure you are correct. In this case you are not. En is pronounced on in this context

I'm not sure what the rules are for which words remain 'French' - someone more enlightened might explain - but we still wouldn't say 'oh faite' or coop d'etatte'. When I say en masse it's with an English accent but I don't pronounce the 'n'.

So you say it like "oh masse"? Genuinely asking but how do you say it in an English accent but making a sound (the French "en") which we don't have in English.

Interesting question about which words/ phrases retain their French pronunciation and which don't. Sure there's a fascinating answer.