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Pedants' corner

Using 'that' to refer to the quality of a thing as opposed to 'a / an'

9 replies

WarmthAndDepth · 03/01/2025 17:36

Help me unpick my intense dislike of the word 'that' when used in a certain way which, to me, is becoming increasingly ubiquitous.

I find it hard to clearly pinpoint the usage which irritates me so much, but I'll have a go: it's part descriptive, sort of presumptive in that it references something to which the speaker has already obliquely referred, assigns a quality to it, and assumes that you as the listener recognises it as such. An example might be:

"We think Steve will thrive at Oakfields, they've got that enhanced level of care."
or
"I love Kochin Garden -it's got that south Indian vibe."
"Joan is really smashing the dance-off. She's got that interpretive sensitivity."

What's wrong with using 'a / an' ? I think I don't like it because it sort of assumes that I'll know which 'enhanced level of care / South Indian vibe / interpretive sensitivity' the speaker is referring to. It's like the speaker is presuming agreement or familiarity, like saying "-you know what I mean!"

Does anyone else recognise this odd usage?

OP posts:
Chocolately · 03/01/2025 21:47

It doesn't irritate me, but I know what you mean.
As in the old expression of something having "that certain Je ne sais quoi"
( I may have misspelt that).

Rhaidimiddim · 03/01/2025 21:59

"That" implies an established/shared understanding of the property; "an" does not.

WarmthAndDepth · 04/01/2025 20:46

@Chocolately Yes, you're right! And I find the 'je ne sais quoi' very irritating too. Kind of whimsical. I don't want to 'guess what the speaker is sensing' or be compelled to 'lean into' something they're trying to convey but can't be bothered to actually name.

@Rhaidimiddim I think it's the implied presumption of shared understanding which grates.

OP posts:
Rhaidimiddim · 04/01/2025 21:00

WarmthAndDepth · 04/01/2025 20:46

@Chocolately Yes, you're right! And I find the 'je ne sais quoi' very irritating too. Kind of whimsical. I don't want to 'guess what the speaker is sensing' or be compelled to 'lean into' something they're trying to convey but can't be bothered to actually name.

@Rhaidimiddim I think it's the implied presumption of shared understanding which grates.

Point taken.
But you agree that the two constructs impart different meanings.

PangolinPan · 04/01/2025 21:03

" I think it's the implied presumption of shared understanding which grates."

I don't get to many exhibitions lately but recently went to the Barbie thing at the Design Museum and all the curation was worded in this way and drove me absolutely mad.
It doesn't annoy me in the type of situations you describe, although I find it a bit affected.

WarmthAndDepth · 04/01/2025 21:05

@Rhaidimiddim Yes, they do. My problem is I find the first annoying as it sort of compels the listener to participate in a guessing game or empathetic recognition, even if just for a moment. I can't put my finger on why this irritates me so much, but it just does.

OP posts:
OnSecondThoughts · 04/01/2025 21:14

I see what you mean. There was a band called That Petrol Emotion, and I always used to think 'What petrol emotion do they mean?' The only emotion that I associate with petrol is a slight annoyance at being £90 poorer every time I filled up. Did they mean THAT petrol emotion, or some other one?

AlbertCamusflage · 04/01/2025 21:29

As Rhaidimiddim's post* *suggests, it is used to indicate that the quality being referred to is one that has been raised before, and/or for which there is mutual knowledge of a shared understanding.

I don't see why the usage should grate, since the reason for using 'that' instead of 'a/an' is so clear, and it is so informative. There are lots of circumstances in which not using it would leave the hearer uncertain as to which quality was under discussion

Perhaps it is actually the assumption of shared knowledge that grates , rather than the usage itself? It is hard to imagine how it would always grate, but it might be irritating in particular exchanges.

RosemaryRabbit · 04/01/2025 21:51

I understand what you mean OP and find it annoying. There's another annoying usage of "that" which have realised I picked up from an ex and am trying hard to eliminate from my speech. It's to demarcate a title of a tv show or film. Here are examples:

"Have you watched that 'Bad Sisters' on Apple
TV?"
"She wants to see that 'Despicable Me 4' at the cinema"

Instead of
"Have you watched 'Bad Sisters' on Apple TV?"
"She wants to see 'Despicable Me 4..etc"

It could be regional I think. Lancs/ Yorkshire border. I cringe when I hear myself say it.

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