The demise of “to be” before verbs

[Ted22]

This is something I never came across in my first 30+ years of life, but now in the last couple of years it seems to be everywhere!

”He needs rescued” is an example I just saw. Instead of “He needs to be rescued.”

”It needs washed”

“The cat needs fed”

Etc.

Has anyone else noticed an increase in this? Surely “needs to be” OR “the cat needs feeding” is correct.

I am sure that this has always existed in certain regions, but is it now increasingly used across the UK?

“Need it gone” on Facebook marketplace seems very common and I hate it.

I always thought I was a bit of a pedant, but reading this, I'm clearly not 😄

Incorrect grammar or regional variations in spoken speech or in an informal setting like a discussion forum don't bother me in the slightest. It would be dull if everyone spoke "correct, standardised English".

Getting it wrong in more formal settings like official letters, reports, etc annoys me greatly, though. Any situation where it would be reasonable to check you've got it right before sending/publishing/ordering the wording for the side of your van.

I'm Scottish and this is totally normal - I didn't realise that others though it odd. I talk this way as normal and have done all my life! This thread is a bit mind-blowing!

Well, okay. Then I mourn the demise of Standard [British] English. Standard Scots/Welsh/Irish English might be their own things, too; I don't know. But I think it's fair enough to want 'correct', standardised language.

@Garlictest
I think you're missing the poinr that the various types of standand English are all 'correct' as such.

Scottish Standard English, Hiberno-English etc. shouldn't be considered deviations from the one true, proper, correct form of English, which I think is where you're at?

Posters from many locations post on MN. It's a bit bizarre to judge them using your own local English standard, yet it's something that seems to happen all the time on here.

Scottish and don’t think I’ve noticed it much - possibly means that it is normal here and that’s why it hasn’t stood out.

”it needs washed” doesn’t bother me but “it needs washing” does! Or even worse, “it wants washing”.

In addition to Scotland and Northern Ireland, I have heard it used in the US as well. Regional English dialects.

I just assume that the poster is Scottish, that's the only place I've 'heard it's rather than seen it written down on forums.

I'm from the north of England, but have lived in Scotland for 30 years. "It needs washing" seems more natural to me, but "it needs washed" is what I'd be more likely to hear people say here. I've literally never thought about it till now, but either seems fine.

All very interesting!

It's a regional thing when followed by a verb. I would say "it needs washing," but I'm fine with hearing/reading "it needs washed."

"Going Tesco" is just wrong. That still needs a prepositional to IMO. I hadn't heard of this use till now, and if I now start hearing it everywhere, it is yet another thing which will be the fault of MN.

I hope that doesn't happen to me now, that will be really annoying

No, that's not what I was saying. On the assumption that there is - or was, until recently - a standard British English (of England) and possibly a standard English for each of the other three countries, I lament the loss of standardisation for same.

I've hidden the thread now, though, as there are at least two other replies like yours and it's wearying to have to defend what I said against what others seem to know I thought.

Yeah I agree with this! If I heard an Irish person saying it aloud, it wouldn’t bother me.

Written online I hate it.

This thread is the first I’ve ever heard of “it needs washing/ needs feeding” being incorrect! You learn something new.

I’m from SE England and thought it was totally normal.

I say 'dog needs walked' to dd1 to wind her up because she's a grammar pedant. I couldn't say seriously!!!

That's the point though, isn't it? Everyone thinks their way is normal. And they're right - it's not abnormal to speak a bit differently in different areas! But people from the SE of England tend to be especially sure that their way is right... (I'm from the SE myself btw).

Well, okay. Then I mourn the demise of Standard [British] English. Standard Scots/Welsh/Irish English might be their own things, too; I don't know. But I think it's fair enough to want 'correct', standardised language.

You can have 'standard English' without saying all the other variants are wrong though, surely? Non-standard doesn't necessarily mean incorrect.

The problem is if the assumption is wrong, there's nothing to lament. There has never been a standard British English, only standards for the four nations and even then they have only been ever for particularly formal language. Standardisation was never about what was correct, it's really just happenstance that commerce arose in the southeast and the southeast variant was picked up and standardised. So you can say something is standard but correct is pretty meaningless.

I don't think my accent or dialect are the ones which the whole world should use.

I do think that if English is to be taught as a subject at school, and if it's desirable for pupils to pass something or other in maths and English, then surely you need to have a standardised form of English.

In maths is it all right to sat that (7 + 5) is 12 or 13, depending on where you come from?

I do think that if English is to be taught as a subject at school, and if it's desirable for pupils to pass something or other in maths and English, then surely you need to have a standardised form of English.

This is only possible within a relatively small geographical area@upinaballoon. Even within the UK there is more than one standard form of English. On SM you usually won't know where someone's from, so you can't judge them fairly by your own local standard even if you wanted to. That often seems to get forgotten on MN, I've found.

In maths is it all right to sat that (7 + 5) is 12 or 13, depending on where you come from?

No, but there are lots of different ways of saying the same thing in maths.
7 + 5 is the same as 6 + 6 or 4 + 8 and so on. They all mean the same.

The math thing is actually really interesting. Obviously if you are building a particle accelerator then working to multiple decimals and with absolute precision is critical. It is perfectly all right to roughly estimate when you are painting a wall and working out how much paint you need so long as you buy above your estimate. You could see this as analogous to standard and non-standard or formal or informal registers in English.

Similarly, units are context dependant so furlongs are not useful in satnav but completely understood and a useful shortcut in horse racing. So I would teach standard English to my children in class while explaining the contexts in which it's necessary. I'm in Scotland so there are lots of words that are incredibly useful shorthand that are fully understood in Scotland, but I wouldn't use back with my family in Liverpool.

Ha! Maths.

In maths is it all right to sat that (7 + 5) is 12 or 13, depending on where you come from?

That's not really analogous to accepting dialect variations. "7+5=13" is false, and no-one is suggesting that regional variations involve stating falsehoods, or that we should accept the utterance of falsehoods in the name of tolerating linguistic diversity.
A better analogy would be to acknowledge the possibility of uttering the plus sign, and other mathematical operators in more than one way. For example, "+" can be uttered as "add" or "plus", and "-" can be uttered as "minus" or "take away". None of that detracts from the truth or precision of a mathematical formula.
I don't think there are regional differences in how these operators are uttered (the variations I've mentioned are a function of age not locality), but the principle is still analogous.

(@Habbibu Are you a Longstanding Mumsnetter of Yore? Your username is v familiar!)

I've been here on and off since about 2007 I think!

Also, I'm going to forgive myself for the spelling of dependent as I was dictating...

I saw an article in the Daily Mail about someone having lost weight "without going gym". From an alleged reporter.