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Pedants' corner

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think so many posts have poor English?

123 replies

poordiction · 09/02/2024 21:51

What's happened to people posting properly? Poor language, missing words, bad punctuation

OP posts:
upinaballoon · 20/02/2024 16:12

Not long ago saw something like, "I should have guess that blah blah blah..."

GetWhatYouWant · 20/02/2024 21:42

On here so many people write things like " something needs done; the jumper needs washed; the paperwork needs checked". They leave out the "to be" part or adding the ending "ing" on the verb. I've never heard anyone speak like that in real life.

Chypre · 20/02/2024 21:45

— sent from my iPhone

ColleenDonaghy · 20/02/2024 22:02

GetWhatYouWant · 20/02/2024 21:42

On here so many people write things like " something needs done; the jumper needs washed; the paperwork needs checked". They leave out the "to be" part or adding the ending "ing" on the verb. I've never heard anyone speak like that in real life.

Never been to NI then! Very normal here (informally).

SunflowerSeeds123 · 20/02/2024 22:11

I have started a post on here about off/from and it was pointed out to me, quite rightly, that regional dialects say off, but me, from Southern England, would say from. For example, It's that actor off/from that telly programme.

I have no time for comma pedants, but I hate poor spelling.

I also agree some posters are coming on here after an unpleasant time in their lives and just feel the need to get it all down before it's forgotten. Sometimes this results in poor formatting or grammar but surely the point of the post is more important than anything else at that time?

RampantIvy · 21/02/2024 07:38

There is clearly a difference between spoken dialect and correct grammar though.

I work with someone who says "you was, we was". Unfortunately she writes like that as well and it looks unprofessional.

ShowOfHands · 21/02/2024 11:55

SunflowerSeeds123 · 20/02/2024 22:11

I have started a post on here about off/from and it was pointed out to me, quite rightly, that regional dialects say off, but me, from Southern England, would say from. For example, It's that actor off/from that telly programme.

I have no time for comma pedants, but I hate poor spelling.

I also agree some posters are coming on here after an unpleasant time in their lives and just feel the need to get it all down before it's forgotten. Sometimes this results in poor formatting or grammar but surely the point of the post is more important than anything else at that time?

You say you "hate" poor spelling but have you ever imagined not being able to spell and hating it. As I said above, I used to internally wince at simple errors and poor spelling, but I have a dyslexic son who, despite every intervention, can't spell. He gets frustrated, cries, shouts at himself and so on. I cannot tell you how much it affects his self-esteem. Even at 12, his classmates roll their eyes and say things like "imagine not being able to spell x word". They don't realise how much it hurts him.

I have good literacy skills and I use them decode all and any language. I have resolved to never, ever judge somebody's SPAG again.

SerafinasGoose · 23/02/2024 11:21

ShowOfHands · 21/02/2024 11:55

You say you "hate" poor spelling but have you ever imagined not being able to spell and hating it. As I said above, I used to internally wince at simple errors and poor spelling, but I have a dyslexic son who, despite every intervention, can't spell. He gets frustrated, cries, shouts at himself and so on. I cannot tell you how much it affects his self-esteem. Even at 12, his classmates roll their eyes and say things like "imagine not being able to spell x word". They don't realise how much it hurts him.

I have good literacy skills and I use them decode all and any language. I have resolved to never, ever judge somebody's SPAG again.

@ShowOfHands I spotted your post belatedly and had to reply.

I have a PhD in English literature and am a lecturer and a published author. Feedback/advice on SPAG unfortunately forms a part of my job: a tedious part, I will admit, as I'm far more interested in content and ideas. Students can also use a proof-reading service before submitting their work (but it's amazing how many of them badly need this service and don't use it, despite constant reminders). I also a frequently editor and peer reviewer.

It would never, ever occur to me to go about 'correcting' others' SPAG on an internet message board. It's the height of supercilliousness and bad manners. I've often wondered why posters who make a habit of doing this don't apply for jobs as A' Level or GCSE examiners because goodness knows there's a shortage. It's not needed or wanted on a forum such as this: not unless the expression is so poor as to be incomprehensible (in which case I'd tactfully ignore), or the poster dropped an amusing grammatical clanger that they'd likely find funny themselves.

I've helped students who have arrived at university with undiagnosed literacy disabilities. I'm not an expert - dyspraxia for one needs formal diagnosis by a medical professional to rule out physical causes for the condition - but I can sometimes spot when a student's clear intellectual ability doesn't translate itself to paper as it should. I can then discuss with them whether they've noticed they struggle with this, and if necessary refer them for diagnostics.

My own son (9) is the one now in that predicament. He's always stuggled with spelling and I blamed the dreadful phonics system of teaching literacy and the fact that he does sometimes need a rocket up his backside to persuade him to learn spellings and do the minimal amount of homework set by his primary school. As he's entered Year 5 it's now been flagged that there is a high likelihood of dyslexia and/or dyspraxia and he's been referred for proper assessment and diagnosis (at our cost, it has to be said, owing to our woefully underfunded LEA. I'm devastated for children with disabilities whose parents can't absorb those costs, which come out at nearly £1K. I feel strongly enough about this that for the first time in my life I have drafted an email to my MP.

I wanted to lend a note of support to you as it's heartbreaking to read of how badly this is affecting your son. But before I was the Mum whose child was also in this position (it was flagged all of two weeks ago), I'd still never have mocked anyone else's SPAG. It's ugly behaviour which says far more about the 'corrector' - whose own posts are very often riddled with errors of their own - than it does the 'corrected'.

ShowOfHands · 23/02/2024 11:38

Nice to meet a fellow published author and English professional. I make my living producing my own work and helping my students to produce their best work. I am careful to never say I hate poor spelling as a point of principle.

I know exactly what you meant now however and appreciate you explaining. Your students are very lucky. I'm particularly alert to the subject right now as DS is struggling to adapt to a new intervention programme and he's breaking my heart.

TheAverageJoanne · 08/03/2024 22:50

SisterMichaelsHabit · 09/02/2024 22:34

Since you asked for this:
Writing incorrectlyIt makes the poster look really stupid. Being able to use your own language is a basic [what? a basic requirement? Basic isn't the end of this clause], and if you can't do that as an English speakingEnglish-speaking adult, people are rightly going to think you're a bityou have below-average intelligence. thick.

But itBeing unable to use your own language doesn't matter so long as if you can be understood,apparentlyaccording to some. Ignoring the fact that this makes no sense, becauseI believe the correct use of language is how evolved humans are able to understand each other.

HTH
Yours Sincerely, a multi-published bestselling author and copywriter (and former teacher, but that doesn't count because my specialism was science). 😘

I'd suggest over-use of adverbs and inability to define articles are the main things you should work on before criticising others' SPAG. See also: The difference between fact and opinion. There are several other ways this could have been edited.

Edited

When using a complimentary close, the second word should not begin with an initial capital.

Femme2804 · 08/03/2024 23:36

english its not my first language and i find this thread quite offensive. Even though i cant write properly But i can speak 4 languages. Indonesian (mother tongue), english, chinese and spanish.

i bet you only can speak english. Well done for your impeccable grammar OP. But i rather speak lots of languages rather than posting properly.

TheAverageJoanne · 08/03/2024 23:59

What would you think if someone was mangling Indonesian?

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 08:20

@Femme2804 , many of us on here can speak, read and write several languages fluently. Pedants' corner is a part of Mumsnet for those of us who care about the correctness and beauty of our language, English.

Your post is not in the spirit of Pedants' corner. If you find our posts offensive, stay within sections of Mumsnet that you find more agreeable.

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 08:27

@TheAverageJoanne , When using a complimentary close, the second word should not begin with an initial capital.
Tautology

upinaballoon · 09/03/2024 13:52

What's a complimentary close? ( Ooh, you do look lovely, bye.)

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 14:00

It's the 'Yours faithfully/sincerely' that closes a letter. It's the part of the message that expresses your regards for the recipient before you close it with your name.

In a message or card it might be Regards, Best Wishes or Love etc

upinaballoon · 09/03/2024 14:04

Femme2804 · 08/03/2024 23:36

english its not my first language and i find this thread quite offensive. Even though i cant write properly But i can speak 4 languages. Indonesian (mother tongue), english, chinese and spanish.

i bet you only can speak english. Well done for your impeccable grammar OP. But i rather speak lots of languages rather than posting properly.

'English is not my first language and I find this thread quite offensive. Even though I can't write (them?) properly I can speak 4 languages, Indonesian (mother tongue), English, Chinese and Spanish.

I bet you can speak only English. Well done for your impeccable grammar, OP, but I'd rather speak lots of languages than post properly.'
.........................................................................................................................................
I know many English people don't speak any other languages. I wish foreign languages were taught more in England. However, some of us have learned other languages. I can speak only for myself but I think if I write Italian or French I do want to be correct in those languages and am quite happy to say I'm annoyed with myself if I don't write them properly.

upinaballoon · 09/03/2024 14:10

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 14:00

It's the 'Yours faithfully/sincerely' that closes a letter. It's the part of the message that expresses your regards for the recipient before you close it with your name.

In a message or card it might be Regards, Best Wishes or Love etc

Thank you. I have trouble with how to finish a letter to a newspaper. I have been taught to write 'Your faithfully' if it's a business letter and 'Yours sincerely' if I know the person but I never know what to do with letters to MPs or newspapers. This is a digression, I know, but I'll look back at the post that you were talking about.

Gloriosaford · 09/03/2024 14:16

TeaKitten · 09/02/2024 22:08

How do you no by reading the post, when it’s poorly written, that the person is using their own language? How can you tell that English is their first language and laugh at them? Or are you judging people as being a bit thick when you don’t actually no, as it’s an anonymous forum?

🤣🤣🤣👏🏻

ASighMadeOfStone · 09/03/2024 14:16

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 08:20

@Femme2804 , many of us on here can speak, read and write several languages fluently. Pedants' corner is a part of Mumsnet for those of us who care about the correctness and beauty of our language, English.

Your post is not in the spirit of Pedants' corner. If you find our posts offensive, stay within sections of Mumsnet that you find more agreeable.

You'll know, however, that it's only been in the last decade or so that PC has been taken over by people wanting to crow over others, point out how vastly superior their own SpaG is, and point and laugh at posters not as fortunate as they are.

I often find threads in PC offensive. Because they are. And I'll say so. And you won't tell me to post elsewhere. I remember PC being set up (and I imagine Showy does too) and frankly, it's been dumbed down to playground pigtail pulling a lot of the time.

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 14:52

@ASighMadeOfStone , I thought it was for pedants. I come here to be pedantic or to ask or reply to questions to do with spelling and grammar.
I don't notice in here the things you describe, but I do sometimes spot them elsewhere.

I replied to a post earlier today because I thought the poster had ventured into the wrong section by mistake, and I tried to reply tactfully.

My reply to @TheAverageJoanne was because her reply didn't quite read properly. It's almost a given that a post correcting someone's spelling and grammar will contain something that could be corrected.

TheAverageJoanne · 09/03/2024 20:13

@PedantScorner ooh what have I done wrong? I need to check my posts!

PedantScorner · 09/03/2024 20:39

@TheAverageJoanne , "... the second word should not begin with an initial capital."

... the second word should not begin with a capital.

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