Embarrassed to ask but can anyone explain the rule about adding an 's' after a name ending in an 's'?

[dottypencilcase]

Exactly that- born and raised in this country but I've never quite understood the rule of how to add an 's' (denoting possession) when it comes to a name that also ends in an 's'.

So is it Harris's or Harris' or James' or James's? Please be gentle with me- I'm already feeling a bit thick!

I was going to go with @Lifesagamethentheytaketheboardaway and @Sunny24 until I read this :(

This doesn’t change anything.

Williams’ and William’s are clearly different.

I would still pronounce the “‘s” in Williams’ too (so it still sounds like Williams’s but is written Williams’)

I would always add the s unless it's a plural possessive noun. e.g.

The kid's ball - the ball that belongs to a single kid
The kids' ball - the ball that belongs to multiple kids

Or as someone else said upthread, the girls' toilet.

I think really you can do either, according to preference. But I guess you should keep it consistent. I'd go for Harris'

How could it? The Jones’ house is pronounced Joneses. So it couldn’t be mistaken for Joan’s house.

Also the Williams' example above, you'd know from the context so it wouldn't be an issue.
William's house is on the left.
The Williams' house is on the left.

Because this is writing not speaking.

How would you pronounce "girls' toilet"?

This is why I would write the extra S if I am pronouncing it. I’m not 100% sure but I think what I do is add the ‘s if something is singular (like James or Jones) but only add the apostrophe if something is plural” (like girls or Joneses). It feels right to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

As the first 2 replies show, either is acceptable 😄

The question is about singular names that end in s, not possessive plurals (like girls’ toilet) where there is only one correct way.

With a name like James it is equally correct to write James’ house or James’s house. Personally I prefer the latter because that’s what I would say if I were reading it out loud, but neither is wrong.

St James’s Park station has signs saying both James’s and James’, and no one seems to mind.

Though Newcastle football stadium is specifically St James' Park and the London park is St James's Park.

There are two important things to remember:

-Apostrophes are possessive only, they are not necessary just because there happens to be an s at the end of the word.

-If a name already has an s at the end, it is never correct to stick in an apostrophe before the existing s, it always comes after, whether you then choose to add an extra s or not.

Either is correct. My DD is called Iris and we've always gone with Iris', as our surname has ss in it, which is a lot of SSsssss. She's now 18 and an absolute grammar pendant in her own right 😄

I’m a proofreader and I don’t mind either style as long as you’re consistent and don’t sometimes write James’ and then at other times write Doris’s.

Yes, I can see this- Mr Jones's house but the Joneses' house not the Joneses's house.

I was always taught that for a single s like in James, it was preferable to write James' but James's was fine if that's the style you liked more, but if there was a double s like in Ross then you should always add the 's - so Ross's

And like a PP said, as long as it's consistent through the same piece of writing then that's the main thing.

I have a name ending with s and I would just put an apostrophe

Wrong. The person is not a plural

I'm old and was taught it this way:

Singular person, e.g James. James has shoes. Those are Jameses shoes. Those are James' shoes. The shoes belong to James.

Group or Family/Multiple people, e.g. Jones. The Jones family own this house. This is the Joneses house. The house belongs to the Joneses.

James' and James's are both correct. Stick to one of them.

I was taught if you write the Williams’ house is is pronounced the same at the William’s house. If you write Williams’s it’s pronounced Williamses. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Hence I stick to Williams’s.

Alternatively, just refuse to have anything yo do with anyone whose names ends in s. This will make punctuation far easier, although provide some other problems...

As mentioned, either is acceptable these days. If you're writing for an organisation that has a house style, whatever they say. Otherwise, decide one way or the other and be consistent with yourself.

I generally go with the rule that if you pronounce it you write it. This means Rogers’s would be wrong. ConocoPhillips is always a bit problematic, but as others said consistency is all.

Rogers's isn't wrong if you are referring to someone whose surname is Rogers.
e.g. Anna Rogers's house.

We must agree to differ. Most people wouldn’t pronounce a second ‘s’.