Use of 'a' instead of 'an' before a vowel sound

[WhenDovesFly]

I'm seeing this more and more, not just here on MN but on social media in general.

For example, someone writing a apple, or a elephant. Unless in their head they're sounding the 'a' as you would when reciting the alphabet, then it doesn't even sound right, as well as being grammatically incorrect.

It makes me want to scream when I notice it.

[TeaAndStrumpets]

@CaptainMyCaptain

I'm iDerbyshire and I don't think I've ever heard that although there are other oddities like 'pee-uhs' for peas. I think those things are dying out now.

Exactly! My friends from these areas are 60s and over, they speak like that but possibly their grand children won't. Which I really think is a shame, as I love hearing it. It's years since I lived there, I used to be greeted with "Ay up me duck".

Re double vowel in peas, this used to be the same in Lincolnshire. I went to school rurally (1960s) and the locals spoke very much as recorded by Tennyson!

[TeaAndStrumpets]

@EVHead

A glottal stop?

Maybe!

[Corgiorsheepdog]

@JenniferBarkley

I think that's particularly jarring from Irish people because that's not how Irish people of any region I know would naturally speak. Like the way people get a job at RTE and then seemingly have to call it "Arrr Tee Ee" instead of "Oar Tee Eee" like they would have done their whole lives up to that point.

Are you from Dublin @JenniferBarkley?
I'm Irish and don't say Oar for R.
I don't say Arr either, more Awe with an r at the end.
I do say an historic, but it's a hotel.

[eggandonion]

@RubyRoss i now have an earworm of Anne Doyle, she was very correct.

[ScentOfAMemory]

I've been muttering "a egg" to myself, and think it's less of a glottal stop and more of a kind of natural hiatus caused by the mouth manoeuvring itself to get from the "a" (it's a schwa neutral vowel in this type of utterance) which is articulated in the middle of the mouth, to the "e" which is a front vowel.

[TeaAndStrumpets]

@ScentOfAMemory

I've been muttering "a egg" to myself, and think it's less of a glottal stop and more of a kind of natural hiatus caused by the mouth manoeuvring itself to get from the "a" (it's a schwa neutral vowel in this type of utterance) which is articulated in the middle of the mouth, to the "e" which is a front vowel.

Yes, thanks that is probably a more precise description. Would love to know a linguistic reason but probably lost in the mists of time.

Maybe the modern usage is being secretly spread by pensioners from the East Midlands ;-)

[ScentOfAMemory]

🤣 well, I'm 57 and from the Notts/Derbys border but I'll stick with my grandad's old favourites "ahl gutta futta ahr stairs"

[TeaAndStrumpets]

Brilliant!

[JenniferBarkley]

@Corgiorsheepdog

Are you from Dublin @JenniferBarkley?
I'm Irish and don't say Oar for R.
I don't say Arr either, more Awe with an r at the end.
I do say an historic, but it's a hotel.

I am! I would say that Oar and Awe-r sound the same to me so I guess we're talking about very similar sounds. Do you know what I mean though about people changing their pronunciation of RTE?

[eggandonion]

I am channelling my inner miriam ocallaghan now to think rte.
The Belfast addition of wee as often as possible avoids this a wee egg, a wee hotel, a wee apple tart...

[ShipOfTheseus]

Odd that while an historian or an hotel etc are dying out and seem mannered, an hour is still completely normal. You’d never say that the job pays £20 a hour.

[80sMum]

@purpledalmation

An hotel is actually correct, but generally not used. I don't think an hospital is correct but I was taught 'h' is a letter you use an with, in some cases, with the vowels.

I'm sure in speech people writing a apple would actual say an apple? Sounds odd otherwise.

It's interesting how languages evolve.

I think the silent H originated from French, where words beginning with H don't pronounce the H. In English we still have a few of those - honour, hour, heir, honest, for example.

When I was a child, it was common for "well spoken" people to say "an 'otel" and "an' historic event", whereas nowadays that pronunciation is rare.

In US English, herb is still pronounced with a silent H, as are human and humid.

[Corgiorsheepdog]

@JenniferBarkley

I am! I would say that Oar and Awe-r sound the same to me so I guess we're talking about very similar sounds. Do you know what I mean though about people changing their pronunciation of RTE?

No, not really, but I haven't been paying attention to it. Would you be able to link an example by any chance?

I say RTE like the reporter in this link.

www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/0527/1142991-tralee-artist-paints-magnificent-murals-during-lockdown/

Oar for R puts me in mind of a D4 accent, like Ross O'Carroll Kelly's cor for car.

[MMBaranova]

Egges

[DysonBison]

That's brilliant. I love the idea of two English people furiously accusing the other of speaking French, or not speaking French, 500 years ago. Still just as harde to playse eueryman as if it ever was...

[MummingIt2018]

An historic is not correct though, even though lots of people say it. If the start of the word sounds like a vowel you use an, if it sounds like a consonant you use a. So a historic, a hospital, an honour, a university etc. That's why it's not as clear cut as all h words or all vowel words, it's a mix depending on the sound of the start of the word.

[purpledalmation]

@CaptainMyCaptain

I think the reason an hotel is correct is because the word hotel is French and pronounced otel. Therefore an otel sounds right. So maybe a lot of 'h' words are from the French? Hospital is from French or Latin.

[eggandonion]

Is Sean a native Irish speaker? Both he and the artist in the rte clip have accents far removed from D4! But beautifully spoken.
Im now mulling over a history teacher/ an historian and a hotel swimming pool/an hotel.

[ShipOfTheseus]

@MummingIt2018

An historic is not correct though, even though lots of people say it. If the start of the word sounds like a vowel you use an, if it sounds like a consonant you use a. So a historic, a hospital, an honour, a university etc. That's why it's not as clear cut as all h words or all vowel words, it's a mix depending on the sound of the start of the word.

At, but that’s the point. Words like hotel and historic were pronounced with a initial vowel. You said an ‘otel, an ‘istorian. You would write an hotel, an historian, but pronounce them differently. You do still hear it.

[ShipOfTheseus]

@MMBaranova

Egges

Brilliant

[Corgiorsheepdog]

@eggandonion

Is Sean a native Irish speaker? Both he and the artist in the rte clip have accents far removed from D4! But beautifully spoken.
Im now mulling over a history teacher/ an historian and a hotel swimming pool/an hotel.

Just checked and yes he is! Well spotted. He and the artist are both from Kerry.
I say a history lesson, a historian, but tend to say an historic occasion. How did that happen?

[MyGrandmaLizzie]

I find newsreaders saying 'an historic....' when it should be 'a historic....' very annoying

[Oddgirlout]

My publishers have it in their style guide to drop ‘an’ before vowel sounds. Apparently it’s antiquated!

[ShipOfTheseus]

@Oddgirlout

My publishers have it in their style guide to drop ‘an’ before vowel sounds. Apparently it’s antiquated!

Are you meant to write “a hour” or “a heir”?

[RubyRoss]

@Oddgirlout

My publishers have it in their style guide to drop ‘an’ before vowel sounds. Apparently it’s antiquated!

Really? Is it a big publisher?