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Pedants' corner

Is or are?

33 replies

Dilbertian · 22/09/2021 17:02

When Mary or Jane is talking...

Or

When Mary or Jane are talking...

Which?

OP posts:
EBearhug · 22/09/2021 17:05

I think it depends on what the rest of it would say -
When Mary or Jane is talking, the rest of us should listen; When Mary or Jane are talking together, it is distracting for everyone else.

OrlandointheWilderness · 22/09/2021 17:06

Are

parietal · 22/09/2021 17:08

imagine expanding the phrase

when Mary is talking or when Jane is talking, then ... ==> is
when Mary and Jane are talking together, then ... ==> are

PleasantFucker · 22/09/2021 17:09

Are

OchonAgusOchonOh · 22/09/2021 17:12

@EBearhug

I think it depends on what the rest of it would say - When Mary or Jane is talking, the rest of us should listen; When Mary or Jane are talking together, it is distracting for everyone else.
The second sentence doesn't make sense. It would read "When Mary and Jane are talking together"

Mary or Jane indicates only one of them is talking so it's "is". If both are talking, it would be "are" but that would require an "and" between the names..

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 22/09/2021 17:16

Is

GemmaRuby · 22/09/2021 17:17

Is. Only one of them is taking so it’s singular.

onelittlefrog · 22/09/2021 17:19

is = singular
are = plural

So:
"When Mary OR Jane IS talking..."
(one of them is talking)

"When Mary AND Jane ARE talking..."
(both of them are talking)

HeronLanyon · 22/09/2021 17:30

Is

Sleepinghyena · 22/09/2021 17:43

Either could be correct, depending on context.

HeronLanyon · 22/09/2021 18:33

If Mary and Jane were each a band, say, each with multiple band members, it could be correct to say ‘when Mary or Jane are speaking to the press I suggest they deal with the drugs allegations as follows . . ‘ but that’s the only type of context I can think of where ‘are’ would be correct.
Took some thinking too.

HeronLanyon · 22/09/2021 18:35

And I wouldn’t be putting that advice in writing Grin

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 22/09/2021 18:37

When Mary or Jane are talking is (imo) the correct option.

Ozberry · 22/09/2021 18:37

Is. Mary or Jane are singular. It would only be are if they were both talking.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 22/09/2021 18:37

Though I suppose technically it should be

"When either Mary or Jane are talking...."

daisypond · 22/09/2021 18:39

Is.

WatchMyChops · 22/09/2021 18:39

@onelittlefrog

is = singular are = plural

So:
"When Mary OR Jane IS talking..."
(one of them is talking)

"When Mary AND Jane ARE talking..."
(both of them are talking)

That’s what I thought as well.
parrotonthesofa · 22/09/2021 18:40

Yes agree. OR makes it singular so it's IS.

WatchMyChops · 22/09/2021 18:42

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Though I suppose technically it should be

"When either Mary or Jane are talking...."

Won’t the word “either” change it to plural because you have a choice of two?
TellMeDinosaurFacts · 22/09/2021 18:45

Definitely is, but if you said 'are' I probably wouldn't notice. Like the @parietal said the expansion test is helpful in situations like this- try writing the sentence out more fully. "When Mary is talking or Jane is talking..."

Clymene · 22/09/2021 19:05

It should be is.

If you change the sentence to something else, it often makes it clearer eg 'when a fox or an owl is keeping you awake ...'

If you put are rather than is in that sentence, it implies they are doing it together, just as 'Mary or Jane are' does.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 22/09/2021 19:31

Won’t the word “either” change it to plural because you have a choice of two?

No, because only one of them is actually talking. "Or" means it is not both of them so a maximum of one person is talking. Therefore, it's "is" (singular) rather than "and" (plural).

DramaAlpaca · 22/09/2021 19:33

Is

EBearhug · 22/09/2021 21:32

Oh yes, I misread itand got it wrong.

I'll go with my usual advice, if you can't work out how to write it that way, rewrite it entirely to avoid the issue.

butterpuffed · 22/09/2021 23:02

It's 'are'.

If you were using the past tense you wouldn't say 'Mary and Jane was talking' so why would you say 'Mary and Jane is talking'