The pedants are revolting!

[TheStepfordChav]

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

OK, help me with this one - an hotel, or a hotel? An historic, or a historic?

Why do we got both, but never an hot (water bottle) or an high (shelf)?

Surely 'an' before an aitch means you drop the aitch, so cannot be correct? (So, an 'otel, an 'istoric.)

Off on a slight tangent, why Le Havre and not L'Havre? Again because of not dropping the aitch, or something else?

Your thoughts please!

Thanks jura. Sounds v. complicated to use 'on the hoof' but is probaby right _ I've spent many a happy hour wondering why we say Oxford CIRcus, but REgent Street etc, so I see what you're saying. An holistic approach sounds the same to me as an hotel, and I wouldn't use it, but if it sounds right to you, you should.

I think the French derivation argument is the most convincing explanation.

I am new to MN. Can one be a pedant, scuttlebugger and sanctuarian or must one choose a tribe?

I studied all ths stuff at uni. It really is pretty much as Castille says.

'Holistic' and 'historic' were borrowed into English around the time of the Renaissance from Greek - rather than coming through French (compare 'story' and 'history').

'Hotel' comes into English around the same time, but from French.

And our ancestors decided to be rather fancy and use 'an'

Incidentally, just looked up 'An holistic approach' on the internet. Two books on Amazon:

'Human Learning: An Holistic Approach'
'Suicide Prevention: A Holistic Approach'

Seems like different academic fields require different rules.

What is a scuttlebugger, please? Why does that thread title upset people so much?

Jura - lol! That's me. I noticed in Corrie the other day the sign outside the garage - Websters' Garage. Aargh!

Very interesteing I have noted that many people don't say the 'h' in many words, so this may add to more confussion.

Like
otel
oliday
oneymoon
ayfever

I could think of some more.

Killed the thread. Just thought am I allowed on pendants' corner if my spellings not great and don't use spell checker?
Are you all tutting at me?

< tut >

I write an hotel, an historic bcs of second syllable rule but I can't remember ever having pronounced it like this.
Still scarred, perhaps, by remorseless mockery of pronouncing turkwoiz, turquoise when a young gel.

yup, toor-kwuz. Actually more ter-kwuz...

Best Friend's grandmother pron. golf as goff and squirrel as skwirrrill.

I often force a conversation towards woods/autumn/rodents/fur so that I can say skwirrrill, as henceforth, I hope, will you.

there's a loverly Raffi song which goes 'I'm gonna find a little grey squrrrl, and I'm gonna call that little squrrrl Earl...

I wonder, to merge your two topics, why Americans say kwassont (emph. 2nd syll).
Also always find the Karn Film Festival endearing. I think they're anxious..

Er, how else can one pronounce squirrel?

why skwirrrill, of course!

I often get my pronunciation wrong - English is not my mother tongue, although it is my most fluent language. I remember pronouncing 'duodenum' as 'dwodnum', and 'incisors' as 'in-scissors' at school. What really narked me was that I was the only one in the class who knew the words, yet they all lauged at my pronunciation!

I do like the way Americans say squirrel

skwarral

oh prettycandles, love duodenum like laudanum! It should be dwodnum.

Had friend who spoke excellent English (was Danish) but would pronounce pigeon as pig-e-on. Reminds me of Manuel in Fawlty Towers with his hammer sandwich.

And Wotz, welcome. I don't proofread my posts

Did you try to bring pigeon into conversation wherever possible, as i with squirrel?

TSC -

I try not to use calculators either, but you wouldn't notice so much on here.

I think I'd like to go to Pendant's Corner tho. Just to hang around.
Oh I hate myself.