commas in complex sentences

[simonettavespucci]

I need some help please - the more pedantic the better. This is driving me crazy.

Where do you put the comma if you have a subordinate clause directly following a co-ordinating conjunction.

For instance, which of these is correct?

(a) I believe in dragons, and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture.

(b) I believe in dragons, and if I meet one, I'll take a picture.

(c) I believe in dragons, and if I meet one I'll take a picture.

Recommendations for books which might tell me the answer also much appreciated.

I'm rubbish at commas but from DS2's year 4 homework two weeks ago I would guess (a) is correct but that (c) would also be seen because its of people worry about putting in too many comas. B definitely isn't right.

Actually, I would use two commas: after 'and' and 'one'.

The rule I follow is this - if you take the bit in commas out of the sentence, does it still make sense?

But, I'm not a perfect grammar user!

I believe in dragons and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture

Would probably do that.

Thank you for answers!

Hmm - that would certainly get rid of the clumsy comma pile up.

But I thought the rule was that if you have two full independent clauses joined by a co-ordinating conjunction (e.g, 'and'), you have to use a comma before the conjunction?

And I am now wondering about the punctuation in my last sentence. Should there be a comma between 'that' and 'if'?

How about a semi-colon?
I believe in dragons; if I meet one I'll take a picture.

I believe in dragons and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture.

This is correct!

Fair point Bo and Polter. But, for the sake of the argument, if I want to keep it as one sentence, which is correct?

Imperial, you sound very authoritative, so I am inclined to believe you. But why is that correct? Is there an exception to the rule I stated above?

If we took out the conditional, it would be:

'I believe in dragons, and I want to find one.'

So why does the comma disappear?

isn't because you're introducing a new sub clause by adding the "iif I meet one" ?

I believe in dragons, and I'll take a picture

I believe in dragons, and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture.

Hmm, my bold didn't work

redhat - sorry, I should have phrased that better:

So why does the comma before the 'and' disappear?

You've kept it, which was my first guess for the right answer also - (a) in the OP - but imperial and others are saying it shouldn't be there.

I don't think it does disappear

I believe in dragons, and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture.

I'm not great at grammar (at school in the 70s/80s) but the DSs do loads.

'If I meet one' is the subordinate clause and should therefore have commas around it.

Whether there should be a comma before a conjunction or not is a matter for debate. The more traditional answer is yes, the more modern answer (and traditional in the US) is no.

So you could have: "I believe in dragons, and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture"; or, "I believe in dragons and, if I meet one, I'll take a picture".

OR you could view "If I meet one I'll take a picture" as a sentence by itself and simply join the two sentences with the conjunction "and", with an optional comma after it.

I have seen different answers in different grammar books btw, but one easy reference is Grammar Girl on youtube. She tends to be correct, although American!

Thanks again for answers, everyone.

Kickass - I think you may have the answer: if a comma before a co-ordinating conjunction is optional, then the problem disappears. But are you sure? I tried googling grammar girl on the subject, and the best I could find was:

"...when you join two things that could be sentences on their own with a word such as “and,” “but,” or “or,” you need a comma before the conjunction:

Squiggly ran to the forest, and Aardvark chased the peeves."

www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/comma-splice

And this - i.e., that you do need the comma - agrees with everything else I've found on the topic (though I've not found anything on the specific construction in the the OP, hence my question).

reddit - Me too, I was at school a while after you, but I only got taught grammar for foreign languages unfortunately.

Nb For total clarity that should be "if a comma before a co-ordinating conjunction which is joining two independent clauses is optional".