Using quotation marks

[breatheslowly]

I remember being taught to put a comma before them in primary school, but very little beyond that. I now seem to want to use them in more complex ways and I am aware that I am probably getting it all wrong. Things like putting a question as a quote in the middle of a sentence. I'm not sure what to capitalise around them either.

Can anyone give some guidance or point me to a decent website?

Hi - think our paths have crossed before on Primary Ed?

In what context are you writing, and why does it need to be more complex? If it's for publication, then these days different contexts will probably use different standards of English. So tabloid newspapers will be quite informal, even breaking 'rules'. Whereas The Times will (hopefully) be more accurate and observant of the correct rules.

If it's for on-line use, then personally I think that can be less formal again. I don't normally use 'text-speak' and sometimes do some abbreviation, then think: No, that looks horrid, and put it back in full. Also I sometimes just use Italic, or Italic+Bold, to indicate something is a quote within on-line things (assuming it's a situation that accepts such formatting.) [Now, there is a case in point: I'm not certain whether the 'full stop' after 'formatting' should be INSIDE the bracket, or after it. I believe UK do it inside, US favour outside - but I wouldn't risk any money on it.]

I don't know any websites, but love Lynne Truss' book, 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves'. David Crystal books are highly regarded too.

And Quotation Marks can be used differently from dialogue Speech Marks I believe.

I'm sure all this has been debated on Primary Ed within the last six months or so.

Thanks Ferguson. I probably meant speech marks then. It isn't for formal writing, most of my writing is MN. But I am quite aware that I am uncertain and probably knew what I was doing when I left primary school. Funnily enough I picked up the Lynne Truss book at my inlaws' house last week, but didn't read far enough in to get to speech marks.

Depends on style a lot.

I would do it like this.

We were taking in the kitchen and he said, "I'll cook tonight."

Does that help?!

• talking

And unlike Ferguson I never put ' around anything. It's almost always unnecessary. Not needed to write full stop or comma or book titles. Looks too much like speech. Down with 's!

I would put the quote marks before the comma in beans' example - ...he said, "I'll cook tonight".

If, however, the speech, or the quote, is a complete sentence, (rather than part of the sentence, as above,) put the quote marks around the lot:

"Can you cook?"

"I'll cook tonight."

Miranda I think your first example is incorrect in British English, however logical it might seem. If the quoted thing ends in punctuation then the punctuation goes inside the speech marks, unaltered except in the case of a full stop which converts to a comma.

Entire quotations should be introduced with a comma or a colon. Colons are useful if you aren't using an obvious speech verb.

He couldn't hold back his excitement: "Am I really going to be a father? I can't believe it! That's the best news ever."

She replied, "Well, yes, idiot."

Snippet quotations don't need punctuation.

He said he was "absolutely delighted" to hear her news but that he "regretted" his inability to get involved further, blaming his "criminally incompetent" accountant.

What do you do hen you have a question in the middle of a sentence? For example:

When he asked, "Are you always late to work?" she was furious.

Is this ok? It seems odd not to capitalise after a question mark.

I wouldn't cap it up.

That's right, breathe.

Question marks and exclamation marks aren't necessarily sentence-final, unlike full stops.

She was angry? enraged? disappointed? no, livid! but he would never understand why.

Horatia, I did some work for a US company earlier this year and was told by a Brit working for them that to put the quote marks round everything is the US way, as in bean's first example:

he said, "I'll cook tonight."

I understood it to be as I said, that the UK way would be ...tonight".

You say that this is logical, but incorrect, and I understand your point (I think!) about quoting something already containing punctuation. So can you explain a bit further - I'm always willing to learn! Do the same rules apply to, say, quoting a source as they do to dialogue?

Jones reports that this is "not logical", but... - is that correct?

Jim said, "That's not logical." I would say also correct but you think not?

Many thanks.

I don't do American work any more, thank goodness - it's so hard to force oneself into the "wrong" mode!

But I found this:

The American style places commas and periods inside the quotation marks, even if they are not in the original material. British style (more sensibly) places unquoted periods and commas outside the quotation marks. For all other punctuation, the British and American styles are in agreement: unless the punctuation is part of the quoted material, it goes outside the quotation marks.

So if what Jim actually said was: Put the cat out - and don't slam the door!

then BrEng would be: Jim said, "Put the cat out".
and AmEng would be: Jim said, "Put the cat out."

AmEng is attributing a full stop that Jim didn't "say".

So in British English if you quote a complete sentence then the punctuation comes before the quotation mark.

In BrEng you quote the punctuation - so if there isn't any in the original you can't put any inside the quotation marks, and if your sentence needs some you add it afterwards.