Is or are?

[Ploom]

We're not in the UK and dd had an English test today. Can anyone tell me whether the missing word between There and Pat is "is" or "are"?

"The Penroses are a nice family. There ? Pat, the mother, Colin, the father, and the 2 boys, David and Mark."

I feel it maybe should be are but it doesnt sound right when I say it. "is" sounds better to me but i'm really unsure.

Thanks in advance

Bump!

Are.

And the list should be punctuated with semicolons:
There are Pat, the mother; Colin, the father; and the two boys, David and Mark.

This kind of sentence feels nasty and wrong, though, and shouldn't really be used. It's easy to rejig the sentence so you don't have to.

Thanks!!

Are

What ???! I think you mean "they are Pat, the mother..."

If you must use There (but it's SO ugly) you would say there IS.

I'd say 'is' too, but I agree about the semi-colons.

But you would say:

"In my family there is only one boy. There are two girls, but there is only one boy. There is John and there are Sally and Franny."

Therefore, there are Pat, the mother; Sally, the daughter and Franny is fine.

But you would say:

"In my family there is only one boy. There are two girls, but there is only one boy. There is John and there are Sally and Franny."

Therefore, there are Pat, the mother; Sally, the daughter and Franny is fine.

Whoops!

If you are using semicolons in this example then you would need to precede the 'list' with a colon:

"There are: Pat, the mother; Colin, the father; and the two boys, David and Mark."

Explanation of colon usage

Remember, a semicolon is used to separate two complete sentences that are too closely related to require a full stop as explained here.

"Colin, the father."

It's are. It's badly structured though, especially for an actual test.

Sorry, didn't finish that last post. Will no one build a damn edit button?!

"Colin, the father." This makes no sense as a standalone sentence, therefore you wouldn't type/write:

"There are Pat, the mother; Colin, the father; and..." because you can't replace it with, "there are Pat, the mother. Colin, the father."

Its caused debate in RL too. I still dont feel that are after there sounds right to me (the sentence was copied exactly from my DD's test so it was definitely there).

Not sure whether to comment on it as this may cause some ill feeling but I feel if adults cant agree which word should go there than they cant expect 11 year olds to either.

To me. 'There is Pat, the mother' sounds right as the start of the sentence refers to one person (Pat, the mother)....therefore singular.

If the sentence should read they then they are should follow, as it is referring to multiple people (plural)

After all you wouldn't say 'Pat are the mother' you would say 'Pat is the mother'.

The list, whether separated by commas or semicolons, still splits the people into individual subjects - hence singular for the mother and father and plural for the boys.

The sentence can be restructured so:-

'There is Pat the mother, the father is colin, and there are two boys.'

I agree with those saying is as Pat is the mother.

WMittens

I disagree that the semicolon can only be used to separate to sentences.

It can also be used as follows:

"At lunch we had a started of smoked trout, horseradish sauce and rocket; a main course of lamb chops, mash and broccoli; and a pudding of profiteroles, hot chocolate sauce and ice cream".

Greythorne

No, it can't be used in those situations. Did you read the articles I linked?

Your example sentence, once again, requires a colon to be correct:

"At lunch we had: a started {sic} of smoked trout, horseradish sauce and rocket; a main course of lamb chops, mash and broccoli; and a pudding of profiteroles, hot chocolate sauce and ice cream".

I'm not sure you can disagree as I'm not voicing my opinion; I'm stating the correct rules for the usage of semicolons. (See what I did there?)

Go back and read the articles, or google colon/semicolon usage. If you can provide any evidence to contradict the articles linked, I'll gladly read them and revise my stance.

I disagree!

You state above that "a semicolon is used to separate two complete sentences that are too closely related to require a full stop"....but then amend my example (well, actually Lionel Shriver's example) in such a way that it does not contain two complete sentences.

Here's the link to the Lionel Shriver example:
virtuallinguist.typepad.com/the_virtual_linguist/2009/05/the-dash-replacing-the-semicolon.html

You state above that "a semicolon is used to separate two complete sentences that are too closely related to require a full stop"....but then amend my example (well, actually Lionel Shriver's example) in such a way that it does not contain two complete sentences.

A semicolon has more than one application. The example didn't contain two complete sentences; however, it didn't need to: I amended the punctuation such that it expressed a listing, by using a colon. The semicolon then separates the series of items.

Compare the first application here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon#Usage

Finally, I'm not going to trust the work of a 'virtual linguist' who can't be bothered to proofread their article.

Hmmmmm.

I am mulling it over.

er, excuse me you two. Its not about the use of colons or semicolons, but the use of is and are with the stated use of commas. Hate to be pedantic, no wot i meen?

To give a different example, how about the following two sentences:

There are many colours in the rainbow.. There is red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple.

'Is' seems much more natural in that context, and I think it follows that 'is' is correct in the original example.