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Pedants' corner

However and but

12 replies

limitedperiodonly · 08/11/2011 16:11

I'm dimly aware that the two are not interchangeable, but why?

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Red2011 · 12/11/2011 09:40

I'm not sure - I think you can generally use either, however it depends what you're writing and who it is for.
If I am writing something for a mate, it's usually 'but', however, if I am writing something for college then it tends to be 'however' because I remotely believe this makes me sound more intelligent than I really am!

plupervert · 12/11/2011 22:41

I believe it's correct form to not use "but" at the start of a sentence. But in popular talk fora such as Mumsnet, such rules of writing may be relaxed. After all, it is a "talk" forum, after all, not a more epistolary form!

limitedperiodonly · 14/11/2011 14:44

Thanks. I used to work with someone who banned use of 'however' in copy. He was okay with 'but' wherever it occurred in the sentence.

It might have been that he thought 'however' was twee but I'm just guessing now.

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DadDadDad · 14/11/2011 23:43

Sorry, plupervert, who makes these rules you refer to? Lots of good writers use "But" and "And" at the start of a sentence, so we, the users of English, don't need to worry about some mythical authority telling us it's not correct, because it's not.

pictish · 14/11/2011 23:45

I am aware of the rule about not starting sentences with and or but.
But I do it all the time anyway...because that's what I would say.

DadDadDad · 14/11/2011 23:48

mightyredpen.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/but-but/

plupervert · 15/11/2011 17:36

I'm not sure "who" makes the "rules", but that's how I understand them, DadDadDad. Don't shoot the messenger!

Naturally, there are people who deploy the "But" and "And" to good literary effect; pictish just demonstrated why it works! However, in law, for example, using "But" to start a sentence would not read quite formally enough (also, in law, sentences are long enough as it is). Language is for use by more than just prosists and stylists, after all!

iklboo · 15/11/2011 18:14

Our old boss thought 'however' sounded less negative than 'but'. So I told him to kiss my however Grin

plupervert · 15/11/2011 20:28

iklboo Grin

However, shouldn't it be "howevert"?

As in:
Once there was an elephant,
Who tried to use the telephant.
No, no, I mean an elephone,
Who tried to use the telephone.

However t ' was, he got his trunk
Entangled in the telephunk.
The more he tried to get it free,
The louder buzzed the telephee!

I fear I'd better drop the song
Of elephop and the telephong.

iklboo · 15/11/2011 21:25

Love that!

SomethingSuitablyWitty · 17/11/2011 16:01

Actually, I think, strictly speaking, you shouldn't start a sentence with 'however' either? Or was that just an incredibly superior and pedantic colleague who put me wrong at an impressionable age?

limitedperiodonly · 24/11/2011 22:26

^ I think that was the deal with the person I worked with but I was too craven to ask why.

Thank God I never said, however I was too craven to ask why.

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