Narcissistic mature daughter help please.

[pennypuss]

I think my elderly daughter may have narcissistic tendencies and after all the years of tolerating her personality and outbursts I'm worn out. It's been like treading on eggshells for fear ofsaying the wrong thing in case it upset her with me ending up suffering. It's like she's the only one who matters with the "stop the world I want to get off" attitude and I've just had another upset totally uncalled for and unexpected. I hadn't a clue what I'd done to deserve it. It's no use trying to talk to her and ask if anything's wrong in her life I've tried that. It just ends up volatile. How do other mums cope?

Do you live with your DD?

This sounds a lot like my DD and honestly, she made my life hell while living with me. In the end I had to force the issue to get her out. I mean, making all of our lives miserable and telling her she was unwelcome, that I didn't want her living with me and that I saw her as a user. It took two years of hell, but eventually, she moved out.

Now, I only see her if she is reasonable with me. The minute she starts her old shit, I leave. I've started allowing her to come over to mine, but it isn't a regular thing. I don't want her to feel she can just take over again.

While I accept that I was far from a perfect parent, as an adult, she needs to live elsewhere and that means I don't have to put up with behaviour I don't like.

Gosh - you have a lot to deal with! My thoughts are that emotional volatility alone is not diagnostic of NPD. In fact the people I most suspect of proper narcissism are pretty darned cold and manipulative and they are just low-key mean. When they don't get their way it often turns very nasty indeed.

It is possible that your daughter may have undiagnosed Autism or ADHD which are incredibly common conditions and not fully understood in women of all ages. When I first got diagnosed with anxiety and emotional dysregulation my therapist realised pretty quickly it was overwhelm due to autism with adhd! This has been a turning point for me to be so much more reasonable with everyone.

My advice is to encourage her (maybe with a trusted third party) to speak to her GP and seek a referral. It is nobody's fault if she has autism and she can learn how to communicate her needs calmly (if she has therapy). It is not about pointing fingers; it is about creating a happy and safe home environment for both of you.

Thanks CherryBarb for replying. "It's good to talk" and get everything you said. However, there is no way my daughter would acquire help I have thought of that for both of us but it would be insulting to her to even suggest it and the result would be horrendous if I tried. 60 years I've been putting up with hurtful outbursts and this last one I can't cope with due to age. We're at the stage where there is no contact but it's only temporary as she can''t stand silence so I'm dreading what happens next. Her personality is so much like NPD in lots of ways and didn't think to attach a label to it. I just thought "here we go again" and put up with it. Every time she hurts I have no idea what triggered it as I've been so careful over the years not to say the wrong thing. Ihave thought many times about asking her if there's anything wrong in case I could help but from history she would erupt. It's as though she wakes in a bad mood and decides I'm to be the punch bag. She has a good husband and loves him to bits. They have a lovely home which she adores. They have two adult children happy in their own homes. Both have good health and jobs and money isn't a problem. How many people are able to enjoy all that. I'm obviously the problem but no idea why but I've been blaming myself because I can see no other reason for the awful hurt. How on earth do I sever all contact to save my sanity. It's impossible to speak with her rationally because it ends up - it's all my fault so more often than not I lose it. After 60 years who wouldn't ??

I am younger than your daughter, but I remember my sister and I had a difficult relationship with our mum at times. In all honesty I think we all have/had autism. Fortunately we were all on the same page as our mum's health deteriorated. She did make some daft demands of both of us though due to her inability to trust strangers (classic symptom of asd).
Your daughter may regret her hostility towards you. I obviously don't know you both, but fixating on a NPD diagnosis is not going to be fruitful, as you need to take care of yourself first and foremost and anxiety and drama in your 80s(?) is a lot to handle and in your shoes I definitely would be doing things that I enjoy and relax me.
Hope things can improve for you xxx

Thanks so much for keeping in touch. I only use narcissist because I couldn't work out why she's like she is and it fits. Trying to do what I enjoy but it's hard dreading when the next episode will be as I don't cope well any more particularly with age. Breast cancer twice and annual mammo in a couple of months so my poor head.

It is a pain when our daughter(s) get accidentally wound up, especially if they are stubborn. Loving concern can get confused with control. If there is an efficient way to approach a task, for example, we may advise our daughter(s) to try that, but they can misinterpret our intentions as controlling behaviour. Backing off is all we can do. It sounds as though you have been very organised, brave and smart in working around cancer treatment. If she has an ounce of empathy she must be (quietly) proud of you. Personally I think she is overwhelmed and needs to contact her GP, but it must come from her. I am sticking to my autism theory because she has kept her family unit going and a true NPD has way more drama. I would not be surprised if menopause has also had some detrimental effects too.

Op what sort of relationship do you have with your son in law?

I wouldn’t normally recommend going behind your DD’s back but she sounds very unapproachable.

Could you appeal to him? Say you need more calm? Can he speak to her on your behalf?

If she is autistic then she is low on dopamine and my dd as a teen with ASD definitely used me as her verbal punch bag to relieve stress. I’m not saying I was the perfect mother always either but when she was wound up, she would seek me out and almost cause an argument to get that dopamine hit.

Could this be the case for your dd? That she had got in to the habit of using you as a punch bag to relieve her own significant stress if she has ASD?

The difference is that my dd grew out of this habit around the age of nineteen.

Whatever the issue is op, I would recommend not getting drawn in to the minutiae of arguments and start gaining a little control over when she visits so that you can relax in between times. You can’t live in a constant state of dread.

So when she starts the next upset say something like, “I hope you know that I love you very much but I can’t tolerate any more of these constant upsets. I have done my best to support you but it’s never enough. From now on, if you want to see me, you are very welcome but you need to give me advance warning of when you are coming and if you start causing an argument for no good reason, then I will be ending the conversation” and follow through op. Walk out the front door if you have to!

Tell her, “I have tried my best to be accommodating for many years but I think the time has come when you need to look to yourself to solve any issues you may be having.”

I think sometimes, after a certain point, we do more harm than good by pussy footing around.

Of course the above only applies if you genuinely feel that there are no major unresolved issues between you and that she doesn’t have legitimate cause for complaint.

Another tactic op is to change things up a bit. If you feel fit enough, meet her in public at a café or in a park and change where and how you interact. Do something that you both enjoy together so she doesn’t have the opportunity to get at you as much?

Or only meet with her in the presence of your friends or other family members, never alone.

I think it’s time you impose some boundaries anyway.

You don’t mention if you have any other children . Is she an only child ? If not what is her relationship like with her siblings / other family members ( other than her DH / own kids ? ) .
I am sorry to hear that you have had breast cancer . I hope you continue to stay healthy .

I know you said she doesn’t like silence but I do think for your own peace of mind , you do need to step back and try and limit contact with her to those situations when there are lots of other family members around .

You may want to drop her an email / letter just re- iterating that you love her deeply however you don’t think that the relationship the two of you have is healthy and for your own physical and mental health you need to step back from it . Try and keep it as short / neutral as possible .

I don’t think it is good for you to continue being the “ punchbag “ for her . It may well be that she has always seen you as her “ safe space “ and the one that she could decompress to . That may have been understandable when she was younger , but she is a grown woman with her own grown up kids .

There may be many different complex reasons for this , neurodivergence etc .
However if she doesn’t see a problem , she won’t do anything to fix it .
I think you may have to accept that you will be portrayed as the “baddie “ in the relationship because she may not be showing this side to her close family other than you .

It is difficult to know if speaking to her DH etc may be beneficial or not . Does anyone else witness the behaviour towards you , or does she do it when you are alone ?

You will need to put boundaries in place for yourself and remove yourself immediately from the situation / telephone calls etc .

Good luck , family dynamics are very challenging .

Read or listen to the audiobook 'Let Them' theory by Mel Robbins. Decide what your boundaries are and then do those and only those- so it might be that you only listen to a phonecall if she's polite and not shouting, and if she starts shouting you say calmly 'I don't want to be shouted at, I like to hear from you so call me back when you don't shout' (or just put the phone down).

It's hard when you have a lifetime of this, but you can set boundaries of acceptable behaviour, I've set them with a family member and they no longer phone me crying or being nasty, and if that creates distance, so be it. You aren't her punching bag, or at least, you can decide not to be. I don't think the relationship is warm and lovely anyway by the sounds of it, so if she strops off for a bit, so be it, it's better to have a few polite and nice interactions than lots of horrible ones.

Just leave her alone and when she gets back in touch just be normal.

Why are you as you say always ‘losing it?’

I have to say I am reading this and have a huge bias - my mother could have written what you have written. Thing is it’s really not me. And there is nothing wrong with me. I am not narcissistic or have some kind of disorder. I do not want anything but a normal loving relationship but she just ‘loses it’ all the time and it’s not something I am willing to put up with anymore.

I think anyone with a toxic mother is reading this with alarm bells ringing!

if she has a loving and stable family relationship, she probably is not a narcissist. And maybe she wants a quiet life avoiding all the drama and a mother who is constantly losing it.