Would you totally support DC(23) to set up in an arts career if you could afford it?

[CornflakeMum]

Interested to know views, as DH and I differ slightly. This may be as we have different family experiences!

DC(23) is pursuing a performing arts career. Has done training and is now getting established. Living at home, with us currently supporting by paying food etc, not charging rent, but not paying them any allowance any more. They are currently running down savings from previous work for their gym/ going out etc.

It's an industry where you have to invest a lot of time and effort in the early years, often for no (unpaid) or little return. The more time and effort you can put in, the more you are likely to be successful/ make useful contacts etc. Also you're expected to 'make your own work' i.e. your own shows and films etc.

Most actors need to have day/ 'survival' jobs in bars/ shops/call centres, but of course any time spent doing that is time NOT spent investing in their chosen career, makes auditioning hard etc, so the likelihood of success reduces. This is basically why it's so hard for working class actors to break through.

So, if as a parent, you were in the extremely fortunate position to 'fund' your DC for e.g. three years, to get the best possible start to their career, would you?

Or would you insist that they get a 'day job' for at least some of the time? Why?

So we are agreeing with your DH then?

So for example - I trained as a nurse. I had no parental financial support, so I did my 37.5 hours a week on the wards and then I worked two days a week in retail. Yes it was exhausting, but I was young, focused and I knew it wasn't forever.

No reason that can't apply to an aspiring actor.

Every young actor I’ve met has a day job, usually tempting or working in a bar/restaurant. There’s no way I would support someone for three years; it’s infantilising.

I would, yes. I think 3 years would give him a chance to get established. My mum told me she would pay my drama school fees but I had to do teacher training first. I hated it! I did supply teaching after drama school for about 4 years and hated that too. I found the pressure to earn my living quite intense alongside trying to forge a career.

Do bear in mind though that realistically he will have to do part time jobs for the rest of his working life. My friend is still doing part time jobs at age 68. She doesn't own property or have a pension but says she wouldn't swap this as she loves being an actor and has enjoyed her career so much.

My acting career failed ultimately but I was lucky to find work in a very niche area of acting albeit not in theatre which I wanted.

From my year at drama school after 30 years 2 are still working as conventional actors. The same 2 who were working after 5 years, 10 years and 20 years! One person is a top agent though, so 'in the business'.

But true.

It's not true. Agents ( good ones) absolutely don't take on people who they think have no talent. Because they want to make money out of their clients, so they need the clients to be able to get work. If this was true every aspiring actor would have an agent and they don't.

Ultimately, whose money are you using to support your ds? If it's joint money, then your DH is entitled to an opinion on how it gets used. If it's 'your' money, then you get to do with it what you want. Slightly different example, my ds is also 23, always desired to work in a very very niche area of employment. I supported him through independent school by making sure I applied for bursaries etc, ex h wouldn't even consider contributing, so he didn't.
Ds decided uni wasn't for him, so he then had to consider how he was financing his 'normal' life whilst still pursuing the 'niche' career. Would I have supported him financially to do this? Yes. But there was a limit in what I could afford before there was a negative impact on my life, so he had to balance it up with a zero hours contract in a job he really disliked. So, now he's been in his 'niche' career for 18 months, so he's earning a wage. But, had it been 'joint' money , his dad definitely wouldn't have agreed to it, so in some ways the actual career and the actual amounts are far less of a discussion than where the financing is coming from

In answer to the question in the OP: yes, absolutely, without compunction. It is an obscenely competitive industry and your DS should focus on getting direct experience, some of which will be unpaid. By all means, a small part-time job 1-2 days a week, but his focus should be on the performing arts career - he shouldn’t be trying to fit this around a full-on job in a coffee shop or whatever.

I have friends trying to break it in a similarly competitive industry (fitness influencer) and their biggest struggle is earning enough from part-time jobs to pay the bills. If you took that away, I have no doubt they would be more successful as they could spend more time creating content, attending the right networking events etc.

Best of luck to your son!

Yes I think I would support them - but making sure we were both very clear on the parameters, timeframe, etc. (written agreement).

No, it’s absolute nonsense.

I know your heart's in the right place, but be brutally honest, if you're looking for a sure way of burning through your money and savings it's this. Make him get a job, any kind of job, to at least bring something in to help support himself.

No, I wouldn't.

Is it only your son or do you have another child/other children? I looked at your posts, but I didn't see you mention this. That would greatly affect my thinking.

Surely a job in a pub or bar would help bring in money whilst allowing them flexibility to go to auditions? This could take years! It would also depend on whether I thought they had the talent to make it. Being brutally honest, many clearly don’t.

Also it's not entirely about talent, is it? So much luck involved.

Sort of.

I would definitely agree to them having their performing career as their primary focus for 3 years (or whatever period you agree).

However, I would also want them to pay into a LISA and a pension, because I’m that sort of middle class parent. And to have a slightly evidenceable work history of some kind, though I agree entirely that writing and putting on a play is an extremely impressive piece of work history, far more so than random bits of cleaning work or whatever.

So I would want them to get some kind of limited paid work, yes, in or associated with the industry. So not ‘any job’ but tutoring, tour guiding (though watch the impact on the voice), box office, bar work at a venue where the productions are useful for them to see (depends on what kind of work they are going for) that kind of thing. But flexible and limited hours. And tbh I would expect their life to be fairly monastic otherwise - obviously going to the gym is probably non-negotiable for the sorts of bodies the industry requires, but they can get their social life at work.

I’d expect them to use their initiative and find flexible work eg working shifts at pubs etc. most theatre auditions will be in the mornings as the theatre is being used afternoons and evenings. For film roles many auditions are taped now so even more flexible (comes with different issues but things change). Having other skills is always a positive

My thought initially was part-time employment would show their dedication and commitment to their art, it would be hard ofc but it would prove they are serious.

Then I read this and changed my mind. (it's an old post but still highly relevant today)

If there is no financial impact, for you, then I think it'd be a fabulous gift to give them, perhaps with the proviso of a time limit?

Break a leg 😉

eta; context

My son is in this position. Just graduated and in first few jobs It’s a mix for us. He has to find work (immersive theatre pays well) but like you said auditions & short jobs can get in the way of more mainstream work. He recently went through a month long audition process - reached the final round for a role that would have set up his whole career - and didn’t get it. That’s the industry I guess. But did highlight the difficulty of regular work and expectations from the industry for availability for auditions.

He is looking for work as of going back to London today. He wants regular paying flexible work and is looking at that now. That was only delayed because of the long audition which was followed by a 4 week job. I have encouraged him to look at self employment as well - and what he can do there

Our agreement is to top up short term - but he needs to be learning to make his own way. He was a kiddy actor in professional shows and quickly learned that everyone who was working full time in performance had side hustles such as choreography, or workshops or teaching. He doesn’t ask for much money - and has told me if he isn’t supporting himself fully within a year then something has gone wrong. He’s quite frugal tbf.

He also doesn’t do much for free and the stuff he does do for free is usually in development for a potentially properly paid gig. He is going to follow up with some people who have offered to mentor - I guess that could lead to unpaid work but it would be education as well - not just ‘exposure’ which is often a con. So I guess be careful if the free work - some of it very worthwhile, some of it using time that could be better spent elsewhere.

He has earned money from acting since graduating a few months ago - and that was one of his goals. He has a whole bunch of other goals lined up. That’s probably important for moving forwards

Not my son’s experience. The big theatre roles do not audition at the theatre anyway. His timings have been all over the place and never in a theatre. Not even for the final round. None of his professional kid acting stuff was auditioned in a theatre either.

See I think age 23 is a bit too old to be having this conversation. My DD is 16 and she would like to go into performing arts, and we are having conversations now not just about how her study will be funded, but also about what comes next after she has finished studying. In your DC’s case, did you never discuss it? They might have chosen a different course of study if they thought they weren’t going to be supported afterwards.

Also, if they’re 23, what have they been doing with their life so far? Did they graduate at 21? If you support them for three years they will be 26 by then … that’s pretty old to still be fully dependent on parents. Is there a chance that your own financial situation might change before the three years is up? And what about the impact on the family - do you have other DC and do you plan to treat them the same?

Getting casual work certainly is an option by the way, and they should do that. Not that it’s likely to fund all living costs, but it’s better than nothing. It also ensures that if, in three years’ time, they decide to give up on the acting and do something else, they have got recent work experience and references.

One of my part-time jobs while I was at uni was being an extra on TV soaps and in films. I got maybe one day’s work a week (wasn’t trying for more since I was at uni) and it paid decently, certainly better than my minimum wage retail and hospitality jobs.

I guess this shows why most of the famous up and coming actors these days are from schools like Eaton and Harrow. You only get into the industry if your parents, or your trust fund, can afford to fund your lifestyle until you make it.

But to answer your question, I would expect some sort of part time job and wouldn't fund it all. I don't think adults should expect to live off their parents and need to make their own way. I would stretch to rent free for a set amount of time, but would expect payment for food.

But if you can't find the spark around significant amounts of work, bluntly, maybe acting isn't for you? I write novels, and like most novelists, my earnings from writing don't give me a living wage, so I have a day job teaching writing at a university, and I have to 'find the spark' to write around a fairly intense FT job and raising children, with the same teaching and admin responsibilities as any other academic.

They need a day/evening job. Lots of young performers work Front of House in a theatre or music venue. It's a great way to make contacts, understand the industry, and have flexible working. Because it will take him more than 3 years to get going - if at all. For just how long can you fund him, OP? He might need a side hustle for the rest of his adult life, even if he does find work in his chosen career.

I do for my DS. He’s one of the very lucky dancers to have a full time company job but as it’s not well paid I still pay for some of his things like his phone, gym etc. because I can afford it. He doesn’t take it for granted, lives very frugally, he has some savings and doesn’t ask for anything. It just makes things a little bit easier for him. I’ll do the same for DD until she’s established in her career too.