DS struggling to get an engineering job

[Enginer]

DS graduated in engineering with a 2.2 from Oxford. He didn’t apply to jobs while a student as the course was too intense.

He’s now really struggling to get anywhere with jobs. He’s applied to a few graduate schemes but got nowhere. He’s got as far as second interview with a speculative application but that’s it.

He is getting increasingly low about it and I’m worried about him. His mental health isn’t great anyway due to previous issues and he’s quite isolated as many of his friends have moved away.

Has anyone got any tips to pass on? Any good recruitment agencies to try? Is he stuffed because of his 2.2? He would like to live at home for the moment (London area) so maybe that is also part of the problem as many jobs are elsewhere.

To answer possible questions in advance, his CV looks quite good I think. He’s got some good internships on there and he has done things outside of formal study that are relevant to engineering (personal coding projects etc).

He might find it’s not as bad as quoted, there are usually ways to get out earlier if he wished.
my husband joined the RAF at 19 with a handful of basic qualifications and having spent two years as a trainee electrician. He spent 7years in the force, rising to corporal in avionics working on both fast and transport jets. He then left and joined the railway as a technician- most have military backgrounds and many engineering areas source directly from ex-military even if they don’t declare that because they like the skills and methods taught. In his team of 6 he has two RAF, one Navy, one army, one submariner and one from their apprentice scheme. Within 3 years he’d been put through an MSc paid for by work and now out earns me substantially despite me following a traditional academic route. There are downsides to the forces certainly, but the RAF has a lot of positives and can provide structure and focus with a fairly low element of risk.

Alberta Canada - mining engineering jobs.

Great suggestion!

This is encouraging. What are the down sides to the Forces?

@Enginer the MOD have opened their grad scheme for engineers this morning. They only need a 2:2.

des.mod.uk/careers/graduates-1/

@PoliteSquid we’ve just seen that! Looks right up his street.

Good luck to him op. He must have done very well to get into Oxford. Hopefully he won’t feel too down and can bounce back into something. Some good suggestions here.

@Maraudingmarauders that’s so encouraging. TY! He is attracted to the RAF but needs to work on his fitness if there’s a test to pass!

I think this was true a decade ago, but people (understandably) bought into the push, and it attracted large numbers of students into engineering and it has tipped the balance. There are 60000+ engineering graduates a year now. A 2:2 from Oxford puts your son somewhere in the upper middle of that pack I'd say. He's still a decent candidate, there is a job out there for him, but he can't be too picky. He needs to apply for a lot more jobs and cast the net wider and beyond just the standard graduate schemes.

I do feel for him as I had a family member who went to Oxbridge and struggled afterwards, it's hard because you're given the impression you're set up for life just by getting in. But a 2:2 ranks him below candidates from a lot of other unis who have a 2:1. It's a tricky internal adjustment for him as it was for her.

Look on Indeed. There is currently a London-based company called DMG Delta Ltd looking for Mobile HIU Engineers. They are looking for multiple hires and reply to 75% of all applicants. It doesn't look like it is necessarily his area of interest, so it may not be right - but that's the sort of company where you can write in and say: I see you are looking for lots of people. Can I join you as an apprentice and shadow one of your engineers, learning on the job until you feel I am ready to hire? I am especially interested in X but would be happy to develop the skills you need.

Being proactive and spotting where within an industry there is a shortage is a good career move. And I know within our own family both my DS and his cousin got into extremely competitive professions - DS didn't even have a related degree - by being absolutely dogged and directly approaching companies who weren't recruiting. They also both learned necessary skills through free internships (which are illegal but DS reckoned it was worth working for free instead of paying for another degree.) Both DS and his cousin got their breaks by writing on spec to companies that weren't even hiring who were impressed by their initiative.

I hugely sympathise with your son feeling a bit low and lacking confidence. But he got into Oxford. IME a lot of people with a Second from Oxford outshine people with a First from other unis. He needs to feel proud of himself. If he has that MEng his 2.2 should matter less. What he needs is relevant experience and that can start at a basic level.

I think there is such SM pressure on graduates these days to believe they ought to step straight into ideal professional roles with defined career progression or else they are left behind. But it's not always like that. He could find that doing weird casual engineering-related jobs like helping put together the rides at a travelling fairground or basic maintenance at an amusement park, or being a boat technician for the little pleasure boats on the Thames is relevant first job experience.

That's brilliant. It would give him a goal to work towards - get him into the gym or a local bootcamp today to start building up his strength while he applies.

@Enginer

my dd is forces and the minimum commitment is 4 years once qualified (approx 7 years in total) for her discipline. They also have civilian schemes for the mod which have less stringent health standards plus the military are looking at relaxing requirements for uk based jobs in some circumstances. It’s worth investigating options as they are very employable post military, going into defence adjacent industries fairly senior.

@Enginer

dd knows people on the mod scheme, based out of Bristol but they get posted around

That’s harsh. My son was at Cambridge and yes his terms were only eight weeks, but he had a huge amount of work to get through during the holidays. Engineering has a heavy course load too.

I can only comment from our experience in the RAF (well, me as partner!) and that of our friends, but pay is much poorer than in the outside world despite a lot of responsibility. Pensions have been cut. Promotion can be unfair, based more on time served than experience or ability. You have to accept a certain amount of travel and instability - probably fine as a single person but can be harder with family or dependants. It can be short notice and changeable in length. DH went abroad once for 5 days and came home 3 months later!
The transition out can be challenging because it IS structured. My DH was absolutely ready to leave, but I’d say even 7years on he feels a bit bereft, and has only really settled comfortably in his current role because it’s filled with ex-service, they have a particular camaraderie you don’t find elsewhere. He also has slightly ‘naive’ or idealistic views of how things should be run. In the RAF money doesn’t matter, if it needs fixing it’s fixed etc, whereas now he has to engineer safety within budgets and with a lot more challenging whistleblowing system - in the RAF he could raise a concern to anyone and about anything and be taken seriously whereas in the outside world it’s more complex and it’s taken a while for him to accept that. Basic training is also tough, apparently. I met him after but he said it really is a transitional phase where you leave your old life behind and become someone new. For some it’s life affirming, for others it’s a negative experience. Post basic training I don’t think he ever did any exercise though so in the RAF is certainly isn’t compulsory past their rather easy fitness check ups. You also have to accept that you are answerable to the military police in terms of uniform, hands in pockets etc stuff that in the outside world would never be commented upon so there is a particular way of life. Living off base as we did can help with that, but living on base is good for community and friendships.

Has he sought support from uni careers service? Most unis support grads for several years post graduation. There may be events he can attend. Also get him to look at Imeche events/ meetings for networking/ info. Is he developing his skills in coding etc? Loads of free on line courses.

I have so much to say here and can't, but I CAN say, it's amazing how out of touch some university careers services can be.

I second the military route. With the degree he can apply to Sandhurst, they have Direct Graduate Entry. Fitness will be required. But once trained as an officer and after a few years in the Army, experience will open lots of doors for civil jobs. I know somebody who is currently considering a few job offers for the role as Head of Security for the bank with substantial salary after going through that route.

Also, he needs to try direct approach via LinkedIn, sending messages straight to HR and Heads of Departments of the companies he is interested in.
Good Luck!

@SketchyOtter I am that careers services do vary and can be out of touch but do have access to some info/ tools/ practice psychometric tests etc that can be of value.

The firm my husband is at does mechanical and aeronautical engineering and they often have vacancies. They don't screen out 2:2s, a lot are international backgrounds and Chief Exec has a third from Cambridge. About 1 hour out of London. Not the greatest pay but very interesting work like fuel cells in cars, materials for aeroplanes. Husband's work is incredibly maths based. Husband just looked and there's no vacancies at the moment but they do get them in his team several times a year. And people progress there from that though many switch into finance or similar for higher pay after a few years.

Yes, Oxford offers 'engineering science', whereas all other universities offer Mech Eng, Aero Eng, Chem Eng, Civ Eng, EE etc. If you actually plan to become an engineer (as opposed to going into FSI as many Oxford engineers do) it can be seen as a disadvantage, and the Oxford brand doesn't really carry as much kudos in engineering as it might in other industries. The engineering programme is also very small (fewer than 200 undergrads a year), compared to somewhere like Imperial which is closer to 2000 annual intake.

@StokePotteries a mobile HIU engineer isn't an engineer. They're a heating system technician. A very worthy job no doubt, but not quite what I imagine an Oxford MEng would be aiming for. Although of course beggars can't be choosers.

One of my kids did that a bit when he was applying for jobs. It’s a numbers game (plus high quality applications). There will be a great job for him somewhere.

One of my other kids had a few less-than-perfect things on her cv, she had not done any relevent work experience, had dropped out of a masters and had spent 6 months doing restaurant work. Her academics were good but nothing spectacular. However, she still got to the final partners interview stage of one of the big four accountancy interviews and ended up with a great job. She thinks her less-than-perfect cv was no hindrance at all. She could easily explain why she dropped out her masters and her restaurant work was a great talking point.

You son is clearly very bright and hard working. There will be a company out there that wants to hire him.

Hello, what is the name of the company please?

Would he consider joining the forces reserves rather than full time? It would give him contacts, experience but also flexiblity - could go for Royal Engineers, REME, RAF or Navy.