Challenging the right wing bile spouted by adult DS

[notaflyingmonkey]

The mindset of the likes of Andrew Tate / Jordon Peterson / Tommy Robinson seem to be influencing a large segment of young men in the UK, and radicalising them into thinking that the answer to their problems lies in racism, misogyny etc. My son included, unfortunately.

Has anyone else in this situation managed it who can share tips? I was listening to something on the radio recently about how teachers are seeing a sharp rise in this sort of thing in schools. I try to reason with him but sometimes am so shocked that I am speechless.

Agree with the agreeable bits (Tate- you need to better yourself) then disagree with the disagreeable bits. Ask what bits draw them in - those are normally the non-controversial bits- before questioning the rest. Worked with my DS

Point out that all the "get out of your bedroom and improve yourself" stuff that Tate spouts is only what parents, teachers and responsible adults are already saying so it's not new advice. He and his ilk use these lines as familiar scaffolding on which to then hang their more damaging messages to reel in the vulnerable suckers.
I have similar discussions with my eldest son, also an adult. He's starting, slowly, to realise it himself.

Hi @notaflyingmonkey any luck?

I was searching Andrew Tate on here to see if anyone had had the same problem I’m having. My 18 year old stepson is very much sucked in to all this rhetoric on YouTube and it’s very scary and alarming. I was looking for ways to deal with it or to share in the despair.

sometimes I think my SS is repeating it to wind us up (me and his dad) but I do also think he is generally believing his views on women and politics. Some good points on here.

my DH is going to speak to him about how these YouTubers say this stuff to get views and attention (so the more controversial the better) and then make money from it - not because they care about young men but because they can exploit them. THe more angry and isolated they can make their audience the more they’ll watch. Not sure it’s going to work but we have to try!

I don't think Peterson is the same as Tate or Robinson.

Jordan P is a well educated professional. His train of thought can be quite complex.
Open discussion about your sons worries and fears.

Jordan P's train of thought often derails. He's the right-wing equivalent of Deepak Chopra with added conspiracy theories.

Isn't it tedious? It is really hard if they have gone too far in conspiracy theories land. Anything you can do to promote connections is helpful. Alot of these young men are just standard lacking in confidence scared of girls and women types. If they can make friends with more outgoing and friendly young people of either gender they tend to stop watching the stupid tik toks or whatnot.
I did see a senior teacher at my school ,who is female, say quietly to one of these lads, girls like happy boys who are kind to them and smile. I've no idea if it worked but she was at least engaging with him. Poor lad, 16 and totally lost really, will get awful exam results.

@Mercurylines no joy at this end yet, I'm afraid.

I think it is a viscous circle of watching this stuff and parroting it, thereby putting off any potential friends or girlfriends. But it gives him a degree of (misplaced) confidence as to why he is right and they are wrong not to agree with him.

We have tried everything to help build his confidence through hobbies, sport etc but he tends to come up with excuses as to why he doesn't continue them.

There is a reason young men are connecting with these views, they are answering questions that others refuse to even ask, despite it reflecting the lived experience of many young men.

You aren't going to get anywhere by telling him it's all bollocks, there is some truth to it, otherwise, it wouldn't be so popular. Also, Peterson isn't that bad, he goes on too long and the media are massively biased against him, but I haven't found anything he's said to be damaging if taken in context.

Your best bet is to redirect to men who are asking the same questions but (IMO) coming up with better explanations and solutions than just "women bad - oppression good". Chris Williamson and Joe Rogan come to mind. They had a discussion together that is quite enlightening (if insanely long)

I wouldn’t think Joe Rogan is any better… I don’t watch his content but saw something recently where he was laughing about how terrible women are at business and all the richest women in the world only got their money from divorce with a “watch out men” kind of sentiment. I mean at least it’s not Tate who seems to outright support/justify violence against women but both are alarming when it comes to young men watching this.

@notaflyingmonkey sounds exactly like my SS. He is socially isolated, lost motivation for everything, not happy with what he’s doing or his career options. We try to get him into hobbies and then drops them. It’s so hard to know how to help. He continues with his defensive and argumentative persona (it’s like a front) which probably doesn’t help his social life.

Joe Rogan is not the place to redirect them, good lord.

I was delighted one of my children came within the Tory fold this time round. There is a lot of anti Tory sentiment amongst teachers and universities which is utterly appalling and very biased. I don't agree with any extremes, but if a child has moved eg from Labour to the Tories that is cause for a party not criticism surely?

It's evident in schools. Despite the fact we have to challenge the 'bantz' and report it, nothing is done. ' boys will be boys' 'lads are lads'. It's the male members of staff who are supposed to mentor these young men who keep the cycle going.
I'm sick of it.

This is not about Tories vs Labour it's about far right actors fuelling misogyny, racism and hatred in young men.

Well I wouldn't refer to it as right wing bile to him, can you not speak with him and explore what he likes about what they are saying? Lumping Peterson with Andrew Tate, will not do you any favours. I would encourage debate but not start from a you are wrong and I am right stance.

Yes, but it's possibly telling that someone read "mysogyny, racism and hatred" and quite unironically, and supportively, thought "Tory".

Yes, point taken. I am a Tory though so was certainly not suggest we are those things. It just gets very tiring on MN where so many people vote Labour and are in a woke left echo chamber that a child expressing a view that might not fit in that very narrow left wing box is immediately labelled right wing.

Perhaps start my talking to the child about their view on one topic within the various ones he is putting forward.

I agree that teachers have a lot of different views expressed in the class but it is really good that teenagers can have different views, even if they support radical Islam as plenty do near where I live unfortunately and have pretty homophobic and sexist views. All teachers and parents can do is express their own different reasonable views even if that does not accord with the Koran, Bible or the latest male influencer.

Following as have a DS with similar views.
It's beyond labour / conservative.
It's clear in the way he treats his mother and dominates.
His views on immigration and benefits are shocking - he is the son and grandson of immigrants, he has had opportunities in life due the support I received from the benefits system.
Social media feeds the problem. Read a little, feeds flooded with more.

@Xenia I think you should have a quick watch of the highest rated videos by each of the people mentioned in the first few posts and then come back and tell us what you think.

I am a little right of centre myself but also feminist and there is some appalling, harmful nonsense on some of these channels.