Lent DD money, now it's causing problrms

[Baabaablackshee]

Four years ago I lent DD (now 29) 100% of the cash to buy a 3 bed house.

The plan was that she would have lodgers to help pay the mortgage and after five years (when hopefully she would be earning enough to remortgage with a commercial lender) she would pay me back.

I am approaching retirement and the money will go towards my pension pot

DD struggled with social interaction and has recently been diagnosed with autism. She is also on medication for anxiety and depression. Lockdown exacerbated her poor mental health and she and hasn't held down any job for long.

With the hike in mortgage rates, it is unlikely that she will be able to remortgage and pay me back without selling the house at the end of the original five year term.

She seems to fall out with her housemates all the time. She wants to move to a smaller property where she doesn't have to share, but she can only do this if I continue her mortgage at the previous low rate of 2%. (I will lose out because current mortgage rates are around 5%.)

I'm reluctant to do this because I don't want to have to rely on her for part of my income in retirement.

If I pull the plug she will have to rent a room in a house share like many people her age. If I don't, I lose out. She has built up some equity but not enough to buy anywhere without a mortgage.

I now regret entangling our finances. I want to help her but not at the expense of my financial future.

WWYD

Depending where you are, could you and she buy a static caravan or small studio flat? If there’s £40k profit , you could add maybe £40-60k on to that. If you go on Rightmove for your area and sort by Price Low-High.

You’d still be sacrificing some of your retirement savings to her, but a much smaller amount. And you wouldn’t be financially entangled anymore. Just one transaction and you’d be done.

“Fair enough in your personal pension. But keeping a big house or thousands in savings (unless you are a high earner with bountiful amounts), is folly - it will only be taken by the LA for care.”

Having money gives the OP choices. the LA will only pay for care visits or for OP to go into a home when she is past all
markers for managing without. If she wants to go into a home at some point before the last minute, or wants care visits because she doesn’t feel safe standing in the shower without someone to help, or because she needs a bit of company, she needs money for those things.

@daydreamsandsunbeams

The routes to diagnosis and support were there in the 80s/90s, less well defined but there, certainly DLA was and easier to claim in those days too.

If there are issues the onus is on the parent/s to act to get support and the amount that it’s worth is enormous, particularly if substantial support is required in school/third level education.

A lot of parents don’t go ahead with pursuing diagnosis because they don’t want the stigma for themselves or their child. The amount of work involved is massive and understandably a lot can’t cope with it or don’t want to do it. And generally they don’t grasp that the outcome, if diagnosed and support is successfully applied for, is an investment of hundreds of thousands in their child.

What then happens somewhere between the mid teens and mid 20s is the autistic person starts to have serious dysfunction in life and becomes much more heavily dependent on the parent/s than an age matched peer. As intervention didn’t happen early on it’s very difficult to treat/manage as the brain pathways are set.

My point to OP is that while she needs legal/financial advice relative to her own affairs, for her daughter she really needs to be stepping in now and throwing as much outside support at this (autism charities, citizens advice, NHS referral to therapy, potentially private therapy (OT, CBT, psychotherapy), relaxation/exercise classes) as possible because otherwise things are likely going to be more difficult, and expensive, for them both. And she might have to accept that even with this, she is likely going to have to give some financial/emotional support to her daughter for life to stabilise her and to ensure that she can cope once she has passed and her daughter is alone (unless she finds a nice partner to act as carer, which often happens).

@SensationalSusie and if OP spends so much of her money on supporting her daughter what will be left for her? We all know how appalling elderly care can be. Not only that but the Op has said that it's always been on her to provide everything for her daughter coming up for retirement she should be able to prioritise to a certain extent her own mental and physical well-being.

There's lots she can do without being emotionally blackmailed into handing over her life savings. Lots of disabled people do cope with less than what the OP has already given her daughter. I also think there is a noticeable tone to your message that the Op has let her daughter down by not getting her access to support earlier and I think that's uncalled for

@SheilaFentiman

Depends where she is, as far as I know England is the only U.K. region that charges for care at home. Elsewhere it’s non existent or minimal.

What you’re talking about is luxury. There’s no need for her to go into a home until the last minute. I’ve worked in them and cared for several family - they are grim. She can move into a supported community or keep her relationship with daughter and other supports. Likewise for carer visits, avoid until you actually need it. If she is so bad that she is unstable in the shower that will warrant attendance allowance and support and you can get a social worker to fill in the forms with you.

Really and truly I don’t get the anxiety to save thousands to then give it away.

We had one relative who signed over house and had nothing. One who saved pots of cash. Both had exactly the same treatment. The one who saved the cash might as well have taken 70k and set it alight.

@daydreamsandsunbeams

It’s not that she has let her down, it’s that she has responsibility to help sort out this mess because she contributed to it by not getting her help.

Fair enough if she needs all the money for herself. But her daughter needs proper support to get PIP, get a proper assessment of needs and support in place, as well as a long term plan.

In deciding to take back the financial support offered relative to housing she’s really dropping her in it. She’s a vulnerable adult, OP appears to be the primary person providing care and support and at present there is no safety net of support or other avenues of financial assistance. All of that needs to be worked out urgently.

“What you’re talking about is luxury.”

It is not luxury to be able to pay a cleaner when it is beyond you, or a card visitor when you are lonely.

And my mum gets attendance allowance, but only at the medium level. Because the assessors believe she is physically capable of the things she feels too unsteady to do. So she would simply stop showering if she wasn’t paying someone to watch her. Is that luxury?

Oh, and she lives in wales.

I think shared ownership is the answer here. Then you can focus on supporting her in ways which won’t leave you struggling financially.

I’m a late diagnosed adult with a child diagnosed in primary school. I don’t blame my parents. They didn’t know better, I do. They acknowledge that I would have benefited from support and wish I had been. But they can retrospectively know things they didn’t know at the time. I think you’re being a bit unkind.

Max charge for care in the community is £100 per week, so £5,200 per year.

Attendance allowance at the lower rate is £72.65 per week £3777.80, so that’s a shortfall of £1422.20 per year or £27.35 a week for care?

The assessment for attendance allowance and assessment for care in the community are two separate things. You can appeal the decision and provide more medical evidence to show that she needs an extra care call for showering.

OP needs to deal with getting the daughter support, and to get financial/legal advice.

If she doesn’t address the daughter’s needs and get her help it is going to be a vicious circle of problems and her needing money. More detrimental to her retirement than what she’s currently worried about.

@mummyuptheriver

I’m really not meaning to be I am trying to point out that worrying about this housing issue is a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

It is fair to say that OP was aware of the issues but was not proactive in dealing with them which has now led to a bigger problem for her, one which she has a responsibility to try and resolve to some extent.

If OP focused on getting her daughter appropriate support and helped her to fight to get PIP etc (with CAB and other charity guidance), then it would likely remove the need to take as drastic a measure as she is suggesting.

Furthermore, if she doesn’t address the problems and takes away her daughter’s financial security and home, she is liable to become substantially worse and more problematic in every respect for the OP.

I would suggest at 29, that is her problem, not yours.
Did you take any legal advice before entering into this situation?

Why don’t you stick to the practicalities @SensationalSusie because your implied judgement of the OP is bloody awful

Ultimately, it’s down to the OP to judge how much capital she will need to support her income in retirement. We should accept her position on this.

@Pleasebeafleabite

I'm doing a lot of number crunching to work out how much I need in retirement.

I don’t know if I’m reading this wrong but this implies to me that OP isn’t totally clear as yet as to what she needs and what financial supports will be available to her should she need care.

There is no judgement, I am autistic and have autistic DC as well, I tend to be fact driven. And as far as it looks to me the current situation is a direct result of her not having support earlier.

My point is clear - before selling anything, seek proper financial/legal advice (not MN), and push for a massive boost of support for your daughter - NHS, private, autism charity, citizens’s advice, benefits, because this gives the greatest chance of her being more independent and you being able to enjoy retirement without further stress OP.

Whilst I think that @SensationalSusie has not worded some of her posts well, the above advice is good. Assuming of course that the Op's DD will allow her to advocate on her behalf.

And as far as it looks to me the current situation is a direct result of her not having support earlier

This bit is really not needed again and again

This is the best way forward l think

@Pleasebeafleabite

Look it’s to point out that she obviously doesn’t want history repeating.

If she sells the house or whatever and looks after only her own interests, the daughter is going to massively deteriorate and will be a continual problem to her right up until the point of death. Which isn’t a nice, enjoyable retirement. And it will probably cost much more in the long run.

If she seeks proper support for the daughter now she could be financially secure enough to either keep on the house she’s in or to comfortably move to somewhere more suitable. And her mental and physical health would be better leading to better work prospects, potentially supported work prospects.

Having proper financial advice could lead to a realisation that she can/can’t support the daughter more with firm justification which should allow her to either A) support her daughter financially more than anticipated or B) firmly draw the line in the sand to the daughter as to what she can give - she will respond better to concrete ideas than vagaries. It will also ensure she manages her money effectively to the best of its advantage.

Having legal advice will protect her and the daughter and keep them on the right side of the law should she wish to sign over anything early or pass money.

Win, win, win really.

@Motnight thank you for understanding where I was coming from. Reading the OP’s posts it did come across more as an autism issue than a financial one. If the autism were addressed properly the financial issues wouldn’t be there to the same extent.

Presumably you can port the mortgage? If she is seeking a smaller place would porting a smaller mortgage not be a good idea as long as she starts paying back the capital rather than the interest?

Yes, I would advise that once she sells she applies for a shared membership on a one bed flat. This way you would be out completely and can recover your money.

Sell it obviously.

Given what you have said about her difficulties with employment and getting along with room mates, she would probably be better off with a place by herself. Could she look through a HA? Going forward, it seems like a better match for her needs and ability to support.

Depending on where you live
you could give your daughter enough money to buy a percentage of shared ownership outright
Then if she had to claim UC they will pay the rent and very often any service charges even if she is the owner they will pay the rent side of it
whereas if she owned a house she wouldn’t get any help with a mortgage payments from UC

“In deciding to take back the financial support offered relative to housing she’s really dropping her in it.”

Op has not “taken back” financial support. She expected her Dd to take lodgers, to work and to be able to get a commercial mortgage on the house in due course.

@Atethehalloweenchocs

Because the house has been put in the daughter’s name whenever it’s sold presumably whatever is paid off the house + profit would go to her.

This creates an issue with means tested benefits and eligibility for HA and similar, giving the money to her Mum would be seen as deprivation of assets so they are in a tricky position - she can’t be socially housed as she has asset, but can’t buy because she can’t afford the repayments.

In an ideal world OP would have bought the house and rented out to daughter and housemates, allowing her daughter to claim UC for rent (which is now permissible for family members provided they aren’t in the same house).

I really don’t know if there is any way around OP funding her further… she doesn’t want to live with her and she’s made it impossible for her daughter to seek UC/HA due to the set up which now doesn’t suit.