Help me understand my mother?

[Nothermothersdaughter]

I am 30 years old and now have a daughter of my own too. I really need help understanding how to continue my relationship with my mother, especially as she wants to see us a lot more since the baby was born (she lives in another country)

• If I ever express that something she has said has upset me, or hurt me (even if she didn't intend it) it's my fault for reacting that way, I've taken her comment the wrong way and she is who she is and shount have to tread on eggshells (which clearly she doesn't with the amount of insensitive things she says). Things that would be considered rude said to any other adult but it's fine because I'm her daughter.

• on the flip side, if I ever say something that upsets her (unintentionally) it's my fault, I was insensitive, I should be more attuned to her feelings and I'm not normal because normal daughters would say XYZ or do ABC instead.

-she cannot EVER simply apologize, or admit she was wrong even for the tiniest thing. She will list a string of excuses, compare herself to people who have done worse, or bring up a time when I made a mistake. It's never 'oops , silly me won't do that again' for example, when we were staying with her she kept just strolling into our room (to see the baby) and I asked her to knock first as DP was in there in his boxers. Instead of a simple 'oops I wasnt thinking' she launched into a tirade on how I was making a mountain out of it and she only wanted to see the baby and she wasn't bothered by DP (the point being, he was bothered, but never would have said anything. I asked politely what I though was a perfectly reasonable request between adults)

• she is extremely passive aggressive. She will never say what she wants. She'll wait until I've inevitably not done the thing she wanted me to do (having not told me!) And then explode in a shouting match about how I shouldn't have to be asked, and how 'normal' people would have just done whatever it was.

• on that note, she still shouts at me. A thirty year old adult with her own daughter. I'm usually so shocked and want to avoid confrontation so I just withdraw and apologise.

I'm fed up of gritting my teeth around her, or tip toeing around trying to avoid the next confrontation. I also want to avoid repeating the cycle and nurture a positive relationship with my own daughter.

Any advice much appreciated

Oh I would also add she behaves this way towards my partner too. An adult man, and father of our child. Example: she was visiting us and was leaving in the afternoon, before he'd be back from work. He didn't know this. As he was leaving for work in the morning, my mum said to me 'well I won't see him again, isn't he going to say goodbye to me?!' why couldn't she have just said to him 'oh, I won't see you before I leave, bye thanks for having me' it's like the world has to revolve around her.

Sorry maybe I just needed a rant but it's really getting to me atm.

Read up on narcissistic parents, OP.

My mom wasn't so bad but she had some kind of phobia about not being to blame; she could never be to blame about anything important. Needed to find other people to blame. I've met other people (M & F) like that.

Do YOU want to see a lot of you mother? I didn't cope well with mine.

Yes, she sounds like a narcissist... No wonder your having problems. Read up on it...

Do you really want someone like this in your lives? She lives in another country, I’d just phase her out before she damages your daughter.

Precisely why I haven't seen my dm for about 20 years..

Thanks for the replies. I've finally found a corner of Mumsnet where people understand that not everyone is best mates with their mum.

I was worried going NC would be the suggestion. I just can't fathom how people do that in real life?! I didn't see her in the flesh for 18 months during covid although we spoke on the phone/WhatsApp every few weeks, and honestly didn't really miss her at all. Although she was in tears saying she wanted to see me. It made me feel terrible but also confused, like why did she want to see me in the flesh so much when she spends most of the time being nasty?

In short I would be absolutely fine being NC but she would not so I don't really get how people do that. She'll literally book flights and tell me she's coming, I can hardly ignore that?!

My dm flounced out of my home once. I didn't contact her for 10 years!!

Get over to the stately homes threads on here. You are not alone and it will really help you.x

like why did she want to see me in the flesh so much when she spends most of the time being nasty?
Because you are supply Op.
Narcs dont treat everyone badly, they save it for family usually, while being super charming to everyone else.

It's really easy to go NC. Tell her it's happening and ignore any communication after that. It's more fulfilling than you'd believe. It'll change your life.

Narcissists can't ever be wrong - their non existent self esteem doesn't allow it. You say she's passive aggressive, does she clearly think she's better than other people from the things she says? If not then she's maybe a vulnerable/covert narcissist. There's no having a normal relationship - my husband would be telling me he'd rather lose a limb than me while at the same time trying to line other people up to sleep with. The flipping between desperately needing you and completely rejecting you is mind boggling. Their world absolutely does revolve around them, they are utterly selfish (anything kind or generous is done to look good only), they are not able to love or (I believe) even care about others, they only appear to care if they want to look good or because something impacts them personally.

You seriously need to put in some boundaries OP if you can't go NC, she cannot just turn up whenever she likes it - oh yes you will be the worst in the world - but as long as you are confident that you are doing things for the right reasons ie they are healthy boundaries for your benefit then there's nothing she can do if you stand firm. She will try every trick in the book to manipulate you though, i expect she's a pro at that, but you need to start now not only for your benefit but for that of your daughter. If she ends up cutting you off because you are not performing as she expects then please don't be surprised - it is again typical narcissist behaviour - you are no longer useful so you can be discarded. It will not be your fault. I'd really recommend some counselling OP.

'If I ever express that something she has said has upset me, or hurt me (even if she didn't intend it) it's my fault for reacting that way, I've taken her comment the wrong way and she is who she is and shount have to tread on eggshells (which clearly she doesn't with the amount of insensitive things she says). Things that would be considered rude said to any other adult but it's fine because I'm her daughter.'
Cant vouch for the rest of it, but if DS ever accuses me of this, I am befuddled quite honestly, because I have never in his entire life ever done anything other than put him first on each and every occasion at whatever cost to myself. I have never tried to hurt him. I spend pretty much all my life contemplating how to help him (even though he is an adult) in the same way as I guess you do for your daughter. I am bemused I suppose because if we know the person who has said something that has vaguely pissed us off loves us immeasurably, then surely the presumption is that we have misinterpreted it? And we ask them what they meant by it rather than blame them for upsetting or hurting us. And I forget (but then am pulled up sharp and realise) that children do not understand how much parents love them.

And of course the reason I don't say this rude stuff to other adults is because I don't care about them.
'Oi DS you drank too much last night and were rude to your gf
Oi DS if I was your manager I'd sack you if you spoke to me like that'
Oi DS I know you think jumping off the pier in the middle of the night was funny, but I think it was incredibly stupid'
Tbf I much like your mother, make no apologies for it.

@MissyCooperismyShero I don't think loving someone immeasurably is an excuse to be downright rude and often nasty. The example comments you've given aren't rude things. In my case it's comments about my appearance, how I keep my home, my choices and priorities in life for example. It's not things that 'vaguely piss me off'

As an aside, if your DS ever came to you and said you'd upset him for whatever reason I hope you take him seriously rather than just saying 'ive done so much for you how can you say that' You sound like my mother and there's a reason i don't run to her anymore.

I’m so sorry. You deserve a much kinder mother!

She sounds very emotionally immature. Unable to deal with basic feelings in a constructive way so uses passive aggressiveness, defensiveness etc. also she is focused on her own needs and wants and so everything she says and does is aimed at meeting her own needs, no one else’s. She wanted to see the baby so she burst in the room, doesn’t matter how that affects anyone else. She wanted your boyfriend to acknowledge she was leaving but wasn’t able to deal with him forgetting in an emotionally mature way.

What was her childhood like, were her needs met as a child? my mum is very similar, and I can see from her childhood why she is that way. It’s not an excuse but it does give some context to the behaviour.m

here is my take….
*work on accepting that she won’t change. Don’t try to change her or get her to see reason through discussion…it won’t work. She probably simply hasn’t got capacity to be any other way than how she is.

*work on your boundaries and prioritise you and your family in setting boundaries. Decide what boundaries are important and how you will enforce them and then stick to them. I’d think not accepting her shouting at you would be one. If she does so on the phone then tell her to stop, if she doesn’t then hang up, if in person then leave or ask her to leave. I’d also refuse contact for a while after to show that you will simply stop contact if she is abusive.

*having a baby, with the increased attention and intensity that brings from her is the perfect time to enforce boundaries. If you don’t, if you allow her to continue the frankly abusive behaviour then it won’t be long before your child notices it and is affected by it.

I blocked my mum on everything when I was pregnant as she started over stepping boundaries massively. Since then I see her on my terms only really. What I find it the more I do, the more she expects from me and the more expectations she has. So I keep contact low and on my terms and I regularly enforce boundaries and take a break in seeing her when she looks like she over stepping or getting expectations.

Hi @Nothermothersdaughter I came looking after another incident with my own mum and found this thread which is almost my exact experience (except my mum sulks doesn't shout..) but the lack of taking responsibility or apologising is so hard.
Just wondering if you took any steps yet or have decided what you might do?

I found becoming a mother myself really changed my outlook on it all and has been a hard road of realisations for me.

Hope you're doing OK

Hi @Alittlelost0 - sorry to hear you're in the same boat. I agree with you, becoming a mother myself has caused me to reflect a lot more on my own childhood and upbringing than ever before. Which is difficult but I'm determined to make a change.

In answer to your question, it's only been a couple of days since I posted but the advice of previous posters is really valuable. I'm definitely going to start 'grey rocking' - there have been a few comments yesterday and this morning, where before I would have pulled her up on or tried to make her realise it was an insensitive/pass agg thing to say, or not given the answer she wanted or expected. All of which would have just resulted in an argument that she would have to 'win'. So instead I just ignored, didn't answer and/or changed the subject. It's very difficult to bite my tongue in that way, but it worked, an argument was avoided. There's no point in trying to change her, so even though I have to bite my tongue, avoiding an argument (that she would have thought she won) is the next best thing.

Hi @Alittlelost0 - sorry to hear you're in the same boat. I agree with you, becoming a mother myself has caused me to reflect a lot more on my own childhood and upbringing than ever before. Which is difficult but I'm determined to make a change.

In answer to your question, it's only been a couple of days since I posted but the advice of previous posters is really valuable. I'm definitely going to start 'grey rocking' - there have been a few comments yesterday and this morning, where before I would have pulled her up on or tried to make her realise it was an insensitive/pass agg thing to say, or not given the answer she wanted or expected. All of which would have just resulted in an argument that she would have to 'win'. So instead I just ignored, didn't answer and/or changed the subject. It's very difficult to bite my tongue in that way, but it worked, an argument was avoided. There's no point in trying to change her, so even though I have to bite my tongue, avoiding an argument (that she would have thought she won) is the next best thing.