How do respond to their 'drama' and hostility/abuse?

[WonderWine]

DS2 is nearly 20 and away at uni. He's neurodiverse (ADD/dyslexia) so finds the world a difficult place sometimes.
He mostly manages to cope publicly, but as a result saves all his angst, drama and 'lashing out' for me .
He called us tonight and wanted to go over an issue we've talked about before - in short to vent about a friend who has let him down. He claimed he wanted 'advice' but nothing had changed since we spoke to him last time and our 'advice' was the same.
He ended the call after 30 mins and we thought all was OK, but then I started getting a tirade of long WhatsApp messages about how we hadn't given him full attention, listened properly, had cut him off etc etc.
It was nasty stuff and it upset me, as I probably do more for him than the average mum of a 20 year old due to his learning disabilities. I just find it draining to be on the receiving end of all his 'drama' the whole time. He doesn't want, or take, or advice, he just wants to rant.
He just always seems so ungrateful, no matter what we do.

Call him out on it.

Don’t give him advice. He doesn’t want it. Give him sympathy and support. That’s what he needs

I do, and it always ends up in an even bigger row! He never accepts he is wrong. I genuinely don't think he can see it from another point of view than his own.
Sometimes after a big row he will say sorry for getting angry, but it's not really a proper apology - more like something he knows he should do, without really understanding why, or really feeling the need for it.

Yes, this is probably true, and we do try to be a listening ear and just make sympathetic, supportive comments too. The problem is that he always seems to want to go over the same ground again and again. If we try to say 'yes, we know, you told us that at the weekend' he claims there's some new angle, some new information which changes EVERYTHING (there isn't).
I don't have the time or the patience to be his listening ear for hours each week. It feels as if he's just offloading and goes off happily himself, leaving me drained and upset and worried about whatever is bothering him.

I’d talk to him at a calm moment (face to face) and say you are concerned about these conversations because they may be making his coping skills worse not better, and they are exhausting for you.

What you’d like to do is help him access counselling to help him move forward (contact universities services, you’ll be able to get some for free, but if you can pay an ongoing weekly session may save you a lot of grief.)

He also needs to understand that you are a person too (you have to point this out!) - you are doing your best as a parent, and you do not want long streams of WhatsApps.

It sounds to be like he is very emotionally immature for his age, he’ll likely be a whole lot better in 2 or 3 years.

If he refuses counselling that gives you license to avoid these conversations.

When you are having them, set a time limit on them, and limit the ranting. If he sends you long streams or messages, send him one back the following day and say a proper apology is needed.

Be tougher, but still helpful

My job is supposed to give support.
The hardest lesson for me to learn was advice and help are less valuable than actually active listening
I don't have the time or the patience to be his listening ear for hours each week
That's a shame

I think that's fair enough. You could give him a clear amount of time.

Don't have much advice really just sympathy, my DS 1 is like this with a similar dx. I cannot bring myself to completely agree with him when he lays all the blame for his woes on others, I have to try and get him to see things from others point of view or at least see that things aren't always black and white. I know he wants me just to listen and agree but he goes on and on and never seems to learn from experience. I would certainly not accept the way he talks to me from anyone else. He does apologise when he has cooled down, it usually feels genuine even if brief. I cling to something I read once that neuro diverse young people have a social/emotional age 2/3rds their actual age so at 23 he i acrualky still a teenager in his emotuonak development.
I am not a pushover, I retain boundaries even if it doesn't seem like it to observers at times.

@Rogue1001MNer

Bitchy much? Telling the Op about active listening techniques would have been helpful, but no, you had to stick the boot in. The OP’s son is 20 and living away, she will likely have a job and other kids, it is perfectly reasonable for her to set time limits. Being a mother does not make you a doormat, and children of all ages benefit from boundaries, as well as active listening.

@Luredbyapomegranate Thanks, yes some good suggestions, although it feels like I've tried to talk to him in this way (DH just doesn't have the patience!) and even if he agrees at the time (occasionally) it all seems forgotten again within a couple of days.
He was eligible for study support at uni through his Disabled Students Allowance but hasn't had a single session. Partly because he didn't initiate it at first, then needed to cancel the first session, and neither he or the uni followed up with another one.
I've talked to him about accessing CBT and shown him how/ given him the links / the numbers/ his NHS number etc but it never happens. Then in one of his angry moments he tries to blame me, saying 'I didn't sort it out for him' (I definitely pulled him up on that one!).

My hope was that he would mature at uni, and I could gradually withdraw a lot f my support, but we've just reached the end of his first year and it still seems as bad as ever.
He has a girlfriend, and I have no idea if she is on the receiving end of similar outbursts, but I suspect not!

Thanks @Wbeezer - it sounds as if you really understand what I mean. Like you, I can't just sit and let him blame the world around him for everything all the time. Apart from anything else, he'll never succeed holding down a job etc if acts like that in a workplace. I think it's my duty as a parent to help him navigate the world, as well as to be a listening ear.

That's interesting about neuro diverse young people have a social/emotional age 2/3rds their actual age - that's certainly what it feels like.

I DO try to be patient and listen, but sometimes it's an hour of him ranting about things. Tonight's outburst was after we said we only had 45 mins to chat.

Not bitchy.

Active listening = buttoning gob, opening ears

Not giving advice, just listening sympathetically and with empathy.

Hth

@Rogue1001MNer Do you have a neurodiverse child Rogue?

I have another child too.
I have elderly parents.
I work part-time.
DH has a health issue.

I don't think this is a healthy way for him to develop coping strategies in the long term. I'm not a trained counsellor, and nothing I say would make him re-evaluate his own behaviour or point of view. He is just dumping his frustrations on me.
Nothing changes, no progress is made.

I already spend many hours a week supporting him (since his academic support never showed up I have been partially fulfilling that role too - helping with personal organisation, priorities, planning and workload).

@Wbeezer How old is your DS1? Did you find anything that helped? Did he have counselling/ CBT etc?

DS is much younger but also ND and I completely understand what you're talking about. And actually, I don't think he just wants me to listen and be supportive... he wants me to agree with him on whatever his viewpoint is. But like OP, I see my job to help him to be able to see the world with different eyes.

I will listen, I will support, I will give advice (when it's required or asked for), I will be understanding... but at some point, I will tell him I'm not discussing it any more if he's not interested in moving forward. Because he HAS to learn how to do this. He has to learn that obsessing and going over and over the same thing is not helpful and will hold him back - in his studies, his relationships, his work etc.

I don't think he just wants me to listen and be supportive... he wants me to agree with him on whatever his viewpoint is
Thank you! This is EXACTLY what I mean - you've said it so much better than I did!
DS also spends so much time catastrophizing - playing out all the 'what might happen' scenarios. When we've gently persuaded him to dip his toe in the water and things have ended up working out fine he immediately forgets/ rejects that he ever worried about it, and he certainly doesn't learn from it

DS also spends so much time catastrophizing - playing out all the 'what might happen' scenarios. When we've gently persuaded him to dip his toe in the water and things have ended up working out fine he immediately forgets/ rejects that he ever worried about it, and he certainly doesn't learn from it

Yes yes yes. I get this too! I completely understand what you're talking about. And I have to limit his contact with certain members of our extended family who buy into his catastrophising and make it worse frankly. MIL wanted him to go to A&E because he had a black eye the other day.... that sort of mindset doesn't help him to learn to cope.

My big fear of course is that as I try to implement some tough love and get him to be more realistic about things, that I'm doing the opposite and making him feel unsupported. It's a tightrope. I am not sure any of us with children like this get it right all of the time. We just do the best we can.

No.

Last time I checked, this was a website by parents for parents. (tick and tick)

There is a ND board, but this thread isn't on it. Am I not allowed to post?

Wow why are you so sarcy for no reason? Very weird

Post away. But don't be surprised if people don't take well to your casual and patronising suggestions that they're not good parents because they're not listening enough. If you don't have an ND child, it really is super easy to make glib little comments about what parents should do but with zero real understanding.

I have one (older) ND child and one (younger) NT child. And it never ceases to amaze DH and I how the NT child is just so different and, for want of a better word, "easy". We can do all those standard, well understood parenting techniques like getting down to her level, showing empathy etc etc... and it has a positive effect. Because none of that works even a little with DS.

OP it is really hard to get it right in these kind of situations, and you sound like a very thoughtful and considered parent who is just trying to get it as right as possible. What has helped me in these situations is stuff around neurodiversity and cognitive processing e.g. the chimp brain theory/book and learning about the drama triangle. There's a great TedXtalk and book called 'From contempt to curiosity' which had good ideas for interrupting people's endless cycling from victim to persecutor to rescuer (which we all tend to do). It's helped me, as an ASD mum stuck between undiagnosed neurodiverse parents and my variously ASD/ADD off spring and very neurotypical DH.

@WonderWine my DS is nearly 24 and still at home.
He's had a lot of ups and downs over the years, we tried family therapy and he also tried a private therapist for social anxiety, he did not like our cooperate with either. ADHD meds helped the most and he is now belatedly accessing education but he has basically been a functioning gaming addict for years now, its a form of self medication for him I think. He is either happy or stressed and cross nothing in between! He does mask with friends or at college/work but then rants at home (he used to have meltdowns in the school playground when he was little.
I think he has autistic traits with a PDA profile but is not interested in seeking another DX atm.
He actually avoid talking to us most of the time, the rants happen when he needs our help whith something or we attempt to engage him in chat that goes wrong when we accidentally remind him of a grievance. Discussing the news is a no no!
He isn't awful all the time otherwise the situation would be untenable but I do worry about him longterm.
Im always treading a thin line between not engaging and refusing to be a doormat.
He does not cope with sadness well at all big downward spirals due to break uos and death of pet fir instance.

Maybe it would be helpful to ask what ds is looking for when he talked. Some people want empathy, some advice, troubleshooting etc. And to try to understand why he's so frustrated with you. I wouldn't take his reaction personally (although I understand it's hard) his brain is wired in a way that makes it hard to see other peoples perspectives. He can't help this. It would be helpful to understand his triggers so you can better support him. I wouldn't compare him to your non Sen children, he may well need more ongoing support as an adult due to his additional needs.

I get it op. I'm in a similar position although ds1 is still at home and not engaged with anything (practically a recluse). Similar ex and I tread on eggshells the whole time.

It's bloody hard.