A royal pig's ear

[WinkyWinkola]

I've had a dreadful evening. We all have. I've made a right mess of the situation this evening.

My ds1 (5) and dd (3) were having a bath together as usual.

Ds2 (8 mos) had fallen asleep bfing and I left the other two to put him into bed. I was settling him and I could hear ds1 singing rock-a-bye-baby in the bath.

I walked past the bathroom folding a towel and saw that dd was on ds1's lap in the bath. He's always trying to put dd on his lap in the bath. I put the towel in the airing cupboard and told them it was time to get out. Ds1 had a big erection. I was freaked out even though I suspected this would be the case.

I calmly told him he's not to touch dd with his penis again. Dd seemed unperturbed. Is this something to worry about? I've had to tell him this a few times before when he's asked dd to touch his penis. I hate having to deal with this sort of thing. Inside, I get really angry about it.

I got them into the bedroom, dried them and asked them to get into their pyjamas and choose stories and was tidying up generally in their bedroom, my room and the bathroom. I could hear them both laughing. Then only ds1 laughing and dd whimpered. Then again she whimpered. I walked back into the bedroom to see ds1 hit her across the face - not a wallop but a firm slap - and she whimpered again. He was laughing.

I went mad. I slapped him across the back three times and told him that if he ever hurt dd or ds2 again, then I would hurt him and did he understand? And that I was sick of him not doing as I asked and why was he laughing? Was there something wrong with him? He was, of course, terrified.

Great. So I tell him if he hits, it's wrong and I'll hit him. Superb work there.

I can't cope with this child. He's always been difficult - see previous posts - and I just don't think I'm the right mother to deal with him and his needs. All I do is mess him up more because I can't seem get through to him about what behaviour is acceptable and he always seems to have hysterics about most things. Always has done. Unless he gets his own way.

I've completely over reacted to both scenarios tonight, haven't I?

the erection is not sexual IFYSWIM, just a reaction to being touched. i would suggest no more baths together

slapping him is wrong, but you know that, so the answer is to avoid the escalation of the situation and to find other strategies

in all fairness to you, keeping on an even keel with 3really young children is hard

is DH ever around for bath and bed?

maybe he can take the reins if this is a flashpoint for you?

i've not seen your other threads, but i am really soryr you are having a struggle

you have always struck me as a really solid, kind, sensible person , so don't give yourslef such a tough time

Ah Winky, you poor thing. Sit yourself down and take a few deep breaths.

I can't offer much advice because I only have one DS who is 3, but I can definitely identify with the feeling that he doesn't listen/care and then you get frustrated and angry at him for not taking on board what you've said and then you end up behaving in a way which isn't constructive. I do this all the time with DS just now, but you know what - I realise I'm doing something wrong, and, like you, want to try and fix it. There are people out there who don't see that, at least we've got enough self-awareness to know it's not right.

I think you dealt with the first scenario perfectly. The second less so, but I think you know that. You'll get lots of much more helpful advice from more experienced parents on here, but I am sending you lots of sympathy.

I am no expert winky but I would be concerned about his behaviour towards your dd - not the bath/erection thing, I think that's by the by really - but the slapping across the face

it does sound a little off to me - has anything in particular happened to upset him or that he could be re-enacting?

I definitely think you should make a promise to yourself that you will never hit him again. It hasn't helped, you feel terrible and it won't stop the behaviour.

Sorry I am not much use. And sorry you have had such a horrendous time with him

i don't think he's difficult, he sounds like a regular 5 yr old boy to me

little boys get erections. it's normal, it's ok, and you don't need to do anything about it

he might just like having her on his lap etc etc, not because it's on his penis, but just because he likes babying her (he was singing a song after all)
i don't think you should make a big deal out of it, you don't wnat him to feel ashamed of his body
I do think it's ok to tell him that other people don't need to touch it though, just him

i dunno WW. they all do silly things don't they? hitting etc
you know hitting him back was not the right thing to do, i guess you just need to figure out how you do want to deal with those things and then stick with it

if my 5 yr old is hitting/kicking he just gets removed and told why we don't hit/kick

No, hitting hasn't helped. It's a shit thing to do. Plus it achieves nothing apart from pain and upset. But I saw red. I know what that means now. I just saw my dd being hit, she was cowering and he was laughing.

I just feel lost with him. And he's going to need that book Toxic Parents everyone recommends. Poor sod.

Do you ever feel like you're just not equipped to deal with the stuff that kids bring up in your life?

i do feel like that winky.. from time to time, the DCs know what buttons to press and seem to be particularly testing when i am at my tiredest.

make tomorrow a fresh day and a new start
everyone flounders, 3 of 5 and under is bloody hard, i take my hat off to you that you can type a coherent sentence!!

blowing your top occasionally doesn't make you a toxic parent

you will have to do WAY better than that if you want to be a proper toxic parent

I'd still be wanting to explore why he hit her like that. That, to me, is the most alarming thing.

Does he hit her/you/others a lot? Has he witnessed anything violent that has upset him?

Sorry, I am trying to help but I am not doing a very good job of it

yep i think we all feel like that now and then

and i think this is maybe a common time for us to feel it. I remember saying to a friend not that long ago that it all seemed so easy when they were little. you just had to feed them and cuddle them and everything was fine

then they suddenly become proper big people with very strong opinions and lots of outside influences and it's HARD! it's really hard and nothing prepares you for that

YY Winky, very much so.

The thing with hitting is it's all too easy to hit because you're angry and you've lost control, and not because it's the best way to deal with the situation. It also means there's a precedent set - I once caught DS purposely whacking the cat and I instinctively smacked his leg. He's hit me a couple of times since then. I now just try and tell him that we don't hit people or animals because it hurts them, and if I am really angry he is put in his room behind the stairgate. I figure he can still see out and it's better than losing my temper. Maybe you could find some sort of similar arrangement with your DS?

I have found a lot of things about myself that I really dislike since having DS. I don't much know what to do about it except try to keep myself calm and not react in the heat of the moment. Not easy though.

We don't, as a rule, hit in our house.

There's been an occasional smacked bottom when we've just been tired and over reacted to something but as a rule there's nothing that could be considered violence that ds1 could absorb and copy.

We're quite shouty in our house in the sense that we'll yell upstairs that lunch or supper is ready or where are you or it's time to go to school now if nobody appears to be in earshot.

DH and I have had a few rows in front of the kids but no physical stuff and the last one in front of them was over a year ago now. We try to just seethe until they're in bed now!

Ds1 seems to get told off a lot - he's never been very fond of his sister and whilst he seems to love ds2, he pushes him, squawks in his face and scares him a lot despite our asking him not to do it.

It must you feel pretty down on yourself if you're getting told off a lot.

Are most five year olds told off a lot because they keep doing the same old stuff over and over?

yes, my 5 yr old is a bloody nightmare!

Can you get some time for you to take DS1 out, just the two of you, and do something he'll enjoy together? I think to an extent you need to reconnect and rediscover all the things you like about each other.

My DS is five and yes, keeps doing the same old stuff over and over (my most frequent current rant: "But we JUST had a conversation about this! And exactly the same thing happened this morning/yesterday/last week! How can you have forgotten?"). I definitely need "fun" time alone with him to offset the bad bits.

Could it be he resents his siblings? Maybe he feels he is always being told off and they never get told off.
I have to say I am glad you posted and find MN very good for equipping me with what I should or shouldnt do in such instances. I've always been very sensitive when it comes to siblings and exactly like the situation you described. My DP gets upset with me because I overreact to these things, and as Lulumaam said, it's not sexual.
I think he is just exploring and learning, a 5 yo cant possibly understand it is wrong for his sister or anyone for that matter to touch him there.
Have you tried making activities so he can bond with his sister? Building blocks or something. If he is good at something ask him if he would like to show his sister how he made it and I think he needs more praise when he does right.

WW, every sympathy with you on the hectic nightmare which is 3 kids under 5! Your DC are around the same age as yours and I have 2 older DSS's who, perhaps strangely,make life easier as they can at least amuse other DC occasionally.

So, the first situation is, I'm hoping now, pretty normal.My DS will encourage DD1 to touch his bits, ditto DD1 will try to wiggle around on his knee if she gets the chance. From experience with older DSS's I just say firmly that only you should touch them and it's a private thing.

The second, again, doesnt worry me from a kid point of view. All of mine on occasion have been pretty mean to each other, from hair pulling,slapping to breaking each others stuff.Your DS was probably a bit cross that he'd been told off, and in his five year old mind, that was your DD's fault.
I can empathise with your reaction,but you know it wasnt fair to him.He is learning how to behave all the time,try to take a deep breath before responding (and I know that is sooo hard).

A few tips that I have been given from my family, friends and a parenting course I attended are;
Try to spend one to one time with your DS doing what he wants to do,make it clear that this is your time with him and be interested in what he would like to do (if you can maintain interest in playing Scooby Doo for half an hour, as my DS chooses!). With my DSS2 I have had a difficult relationship at times, and didnt want to spend time with him but since we've spent time with just us, I've discovered he's good company and he listens to me more.

Give him positive instructions, say 'I want you to do this' not 'Dont do that' and give him loads of praise and attention when he does what you want.If he's being irritating, ignore him as long as he's not hurting anyone or breaking something. Make a huge fuss as soon as he stops the irritating stuff.

Sorry if I come across as preachy,I dont mean to. You CAN cope with this child, you're finding it hard right now, probably because you're exhausted and he's the most obvious source of hard work. Try to get a break if you can, even if that means putting them somewhere safe in the house and sitting on the loo for five minutes with the door shut. Ask for help from family and friends and your DP/DH if he's around. You are doing a good job...some days my DC are lucky to see a baby wipe,never mind a bath

Thank you for listening and some great advice.

I will take ds1 out on his own tomorrow afternoon. I never spend time with him alone and spending time with him and the other two means that it's usually hectic and not really quality.

I apologised to him this morning for slapping his back. Urgh. In cold light of day, it all seems even worse.

But things can only get better.

Really appreciate all your kind words and helpful suggestions.

hope you have a nice time tomorrow afternoon