How different are boys and girls?

[ContentedVanilla]

Lots of people want to argue that men and women are the same and that any differences are due to the way they are brought up.

So my question is, what differences have you noticed if you have male and female children, which you don't think are down to your parenting?

"It is well documented that there are many differences between males and females, for example men are more mathematical and have better spacial reasoning, while women are more sociable and more nurturing."

Aaaaargh.

Ruth, please could you at least say "on average men are more mathematical".

I'm sure you agree that there are loads of women out there who are fab at maths and plenty of men who are rubbish. Likewise on the sociable/nurturing front. So you can only say on average these differences exist.

And how can you tell these aren't down to nurture not nature?

Yes, sorry, of course I meant on average.
That goes without saying.
Everything in this area is so fuzzy that only averages can be discussed.

Juuule: 9 children??? Wow!!
Yes, you are probably more of an expert in this field than many of us.

However, do you all really believe that men and women are, on average, the same?
Do you not believe in the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus style theory that men and women are genuinely different from a evolutionary point of view, both physically and mentally.
If so, surely the seeds of those differences are there from birth and are not merely due to upbringing and culture.

Well, evolutionary biology/psychology is a funny area - depends whether you think that (say) mathematical ability would assist or prevent someone reaching reproductive age, both in the past, and now.

Ruth

Well, I believe that men and women have one chromosome different.

And men and women (particularly post puberty) produce different levels of certain hormones within their bodies.

I agree that those biological differences are likely to have an effect on the person's personality.

However, all the other chromosomes, and all the other hormones will also have an effect. Not to mention upbringing, diet, other external influences.

Basically I think there are so many varied factors that go into making up a person's personality that it is simply impossible to point to certain characteristics and say "that's the result of being male" or "that's the result of being female". It could have been the result of all sorts of things.

I also believe that, if there are personality differences that are caused by gender, they are really very small compared with the personality differences that are caused by other factors - for example, intelligence and upbringing. So I am not sure why there is all this focus on gender differences.

There are differences, on average. But by and large, in almost all cases where there are observable statistically significant differences, on average, those differences are tiny.

Take "identifying emotions on faces", for example, which is actually a trait that has shown quite a large difference (compared with other male-female traits). The difference value for that is 0.40 which means that a third of men will perform better at this task than the average woman. I think that in these cases, simplifying "the average woman is very slightly better at identifying emotions than the average man, but at the same time will be out-performed by a third of men" into "women are better at identifying emotions than men" is misleading. A difference that small is IMO hardly worth mentioning, let alone making sweeping generalisations about and I reiterate that this is one of the larger observable sex-linked differences.

There are a very few traits where there's a very large difference between adult men and women, to be sure displays of physically aggressive behaviour is one but given the plastic nature of the brain it's very difficult to unpick whether that's innate or the product of socialisation.

I've just been directed here from the other thread about gender differences.

I have 5 children- 2 girls and 3 boys. The boys and one of the girls are adults, so I'm not just going by what they were like as toddlers.

DD1 walked early, talked early. Very active, loved to jump and run about. Refused to dress as a girl. Not interested in dolls, or cars. Would sit and listen to stories. Loved music and learned piano. Now loves to read, is very active- into martial arts etc, but now dresses as a girl

DS1 very quiet. Happy to sit in pushchair and watch the world go by. Walked and talked early. Liked Lego and things with wheels. Loved to draw. Good at maths but anti-social. Never reads fiction.

DS2 has ADHD. Crawled at 4 months, walked early, talked early. Hyperactive. Into computer games. Loves to read fiction.

DS3 did everything late. Didn't sit up until 9 months. Walked later and talked later than the others. Very cuddly and into soft toys and pretend games. Did dancing for most of his childhood but otherwise average level of activity, unlike his brother and sister. Will not read for pleasure. Taught himself to play various instruments.

DD2 is still little. She was much much later walking and talking than all her siblings. She climbs, she jumps. She rolls in mud. She is never still and never clean. Needs little sleep. Won't sit quietly for a story. Loves dolls. Loves to draw and paint. Loves to swim.

They are five totally different personalities, not "boys" or "girls". A huge amount of gender differences are learned at preschool when they come together with other children who have been brought up to believe that "girls do this" or "boys do that".

Kind of on this topic - does anyone else have any ideas as to how to praise children without stressing their gender? This is clearly just me being over-sensitive but I get really fed up calling DD "good girl", "clever girl" etc., after all I wouldn't dream of saying "clever white person", "good straight person" (although I've got no idea whether she will be straight, but you get the idea)!

Are there any ways to get around this while still using normal, unconvoluted language?

There are other reasons that "good/clever girl" or "good/clever boy" aren't recommended as forms of praise. It's generally better to focus your comments on the specifics of what they've done -- so "that was a very kind thing to do; Billy looks very happy" or "you did that all by yourself!"

having a selection of both ,i can honestly say the main difference between the sexes is one has a penis and the other has a vagina