could any "how to talk so kids will listen...." experts please help me?

[sago]

I have just read the book (after reading such good things about it on MN) and it makes perfect sense. It is making some difference to my life with 3DC.
But I am confused about what to do when they do not listen and simply continue unwanted behaviour.
Two examples from today:

1. Dc2 (5 yrs) is annoyed with DC2 (2 yrs) and pushes him. I say "no pushing, no hitting". She does it again. I repeat the above in a stricter voice, and move them apart. A few minutes later she does it again.

I repeated it again, and then, lost the general principles of no punishment, and said if you do it again, you can´t ride your bike tomoorrow. So, I issued a threat. What would you experts have done at this stage?

1. they were shouting. I said no shouting, we have neighours, what is the problem?, more shouting from them, I say it again, still more shouting (about food and whether they had had the exact same number of sweetcorn kernals). Do I just keep repeating no shouting? It seems so bland....is that the point, that they will evenutally learn not to do it. And in the meantime the neighbours have to bear with us?

Thanks in advance. In the meantime I am going to order the sibling rivalry book as I am hoping that will also help.

Sorry don't know about the book but posting will bump for you.

You mention what you said regarding the pushing - would it have been possible to try a distraction technique like I need someone to help me stir the food or counting tins in the cupboard.

Regarding punishment I'm for 1st stage distraction, 2nd stage warning, 3rd stage time out step/ spot. Time out ends when after 1 quiet minute for each year they are ready to acknowledge what they did was wrong, say sorry and give a hug as a gesture.

The problem with you can't have xyz tomorrow is can they actually contemplate a day away when they're a bit wound up and are you making a rod for your own back? If they don't have the thing that helps to keep them occupied are they more likely to be antagonistic to their siblings. I do this sometimes and then kick myself because I don't really want to follow through.

Every parent has good and bad days.

ooh i am inerested but MUST rush to supermarket.

will post later

Thanks antagony. Good point and very true regarding the day away being too far for a 5 year old to understand, and it being more of a punishement for me than her. Must remember that one.
about your punishments steps...if the child has already pushed the other, would the first step be distraction? dc3 can´t defend himself yet. But if dc2(5yrs) and dc 1(7yrs) were involved they would complain very loudly that xx did this to me and you are not saying anything. how do you get around that?
dc2 will not stay in a time out spot...last time I did it I had to hold the bathroom door shut for 15 mins!and sometimes (like trying to get out the house to get to school) we don´t have the time. Plus the decibels of shouting are too much ...how do you get time out to work?

I also think its a great book but I feel there is a limit to how effective it can be with young kids (5 and under)as they are just so impulsive and have trouble controlling their behaviour.
I'd say the advice is more useful for older kids who are more rational. My nearly 7yo would be more likely to respond than my just 5yo.

I'd go for distraction (as ANT suggests)'stop pushing he/she doesn't like it, come and play with this'.

Hopefully someone will come along with more suggestions.

Not read teh book, on my list. But in situation 1, when the going's good I'd speak to teh 5 yr old and talk about how it's not nice when she pushes her brother and she should try to go away and do a calm activity when she feels that cross (or maybe she feels something else, you both decide). She might suggest going to read a book or play with her lego in her room. So next time hitting starts, you say something like 'you are hitting, you look as if you are cross. Go and play with your lego for 5 mins and come and tell me when you feel calmer'

My first retourt to x did this is 'what did you do?' If I don't rise to the bait mostly they move onto other things.

If its a minor push/ shove/pinching a toy things that are fairly frequent behaviour and shout boredom I try distraction. Something like hiting hard so they mark or hiting with a toy is a straight to time out punishment.

Time out is not always an easy one to start but they do seam to get it after a while. DC1 used to take quite a long time to get to the point I could start the quiet stopwatch and would frequently need putting back on. The key has to be consistency.

You're right about things suiting you're (and their) needs like getting to school. You could try the you will hold my hand and will not speak or be spoken to for x minutes as a time out in transit that still encompasses the mental space and hopefully achieves the apology.

Regarding shouting we play a game of squeaking like a mouse, roaring like a lion, trumpeting like an elephant. It makes them more aware of their own volume. So you say I'm going to roar like a lion and talk to them in a roaring loud lion voice, can you talk like a tiny tiny squeaky mouse?

The game can be introduced as a distraction when they're fighting over the number of sweetcorn kernals.

I was a single parent for a couple of years from when my boys were 1 and 3. The 3 year old (now 6) is now being given help for Autistic characteristics and had some very challenging behaviours that had me called into his nursery because they didn't feel they could cope with him and then when he started school I was called in as he was a disruptive child. I did work for a couple of years but ended up exhausted and as a single parent ridiculously better off working part time. I felt very defensive of my boys and situation and also that everyone else must have been given a manual because no one seamed to be as challenging as my two. Then as things got more in control I realised that the child behaving angelically in a restaurant one day is the same one screaming over a toy in a toy shop the next.

I'm remarried now and we're extending the family so I'm in the luxurious position for the first time of being a SAHM.

ah, very wise. My 5 yr old is VERY impulsive- I was like that too as a child so I know where it comes from! It´s true, the book has made the biggest difference with my 7 yr old.
Penny drops re distraction. I thought that meant ignore bad behaviour, but it doesn´t. it means make it clear it is not on and then offer an alternative.
I´ll try the getting a strategy together when the going is good.
Already lots to think about, thanks!

Any minor bad behaviour: shriek and say "Oh, look at this!" pointing wildly out of window. They rush over and you say, "Oh, it's gone now" and then make up anything entertaining and lengthy enough to make the quarrel forgotten eg two suirrels dancing on a car etc.

In general laughter helps. If they are squabbling about sweetcorn, pick up a handful and say, "Goodness, this is jolly silly. Right, I'm having all of them then" and then balance them on your head or something until you all laugh and move on.

Don't take things seriously and don't let them escalate.

These is my golden rules wot work.

My dc are similar ages, I use the '1,2,3' technique, which they all get even the smallest one, who has just turned three.

So 'Please stop pushing your brother' DC2 pushes again. 'Ok I'm going to count to three and by then I want you to have stopped hitting your brother and found your cars to play with' Then slowly count to three.

It also works with getting them to calm down. Dd (8) getting stroppier and stroppier I say I'm going to count to three for her to calm down, after that it's time out in her room.

Works also with getting the toddler to come to get in the bath!

I'm not sure how it adds up to 'How to talk' cos I couldn't get past the first chapter. Cod and a100x are the experts

My top tip for getting a toddler into the bath is to turn them upside down! Ds would do anything if I offered to turn him upside down .

thanks all, those were just the nitty gritty ideas that I was after.
antagony, I am sorry to hear about the tough times and good to hear that there are improvements and extensions (sounds like a DIY thread...). I will try the lion and mouse volume game...
your golden rule wot works is great, hullygully. I think sometimes my response makes this kind of behaviour escalate because I do take this sibling rivalry too seriously. It saddens me and I project all sorts of things into it. I should relax about it a bit...and breathe deeply.
my dc2 loves being upside down, so will definitly be using that one. the eldest two hate the "1,2,3" technique and get all stroppy about I am not playing that stupid game etc. But you are right, no reason to give up on it..
I am tempted to wake them up and try all these new tricks on them !!