8 week old with cold - Gina Ford

[laurabow]

Hi, my 8 week old baby has always been very content. He has self soothed himself to sleep since birth with no problem at all and I have been using the Gina Ford routine with great success. However he has had a cold for the last week and everything has gone to pot. Although he seems less unwell in himself he is still quite flemmy and is fighting sleep. When he wakes around 5am for his feed he then refuses to settle back to sleep and his naps are getting shorter and shorter, he appears to be fighting sleep more and more. I am starting to worry that this is becoming a habit. Will he return to his normal content self when this cold finally goes? I am worried I will be pacing up and down with him forever. HELP PLEASE

Maybe it was my calling it "kiss & retreat" that caused the problem; as you say that is usually only recommended for older babies. However the following is fine for younger babies and follows the same idea. Taken from Askbaby.com -

"Crying down

This method can be particularly helpful when initial feeding problems have been resolved and a baby only has mild sleep association problems or has difficulty falling asleep because he is overtired or over-stimulated.The technique involves leaving your baby to cry, and although it's very difficult to listen to a young baby cry himself to sleep, it will prevent serious sleep problems in the future.

Crying down with a baby under six weeks usually lasts between five and 10 minutes, although with some babies who have become over-tired and fight sleep, it can last up to 20 minutes. If you find the crying hard to ignore try and wait for five to 10 minutes before going in to your baby.

You can then enter your baby's room and reassure him with a soothing touch or quiet voice. This should be kept to between one to two minutes before leaving him. You should then wait about 5-10 minutes before returning. Try to repeat this procedure until the baby learns to sleep by himself."

As I've said several times , I wouldn't do this whilst the baby is ill obviously. Some people don't like this type of approach and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm guessing it's helpful for laurabow to see all these different points of view. I was trying to give advice that had worked for us, for her to try if she wishes once her baby is well, as she had expressed worries about an unwanted pattern developing.

Nope it's the same thing, make me feel sick to think someone would leave a newborn to cry. The following is fine for young babies? Why? Because Askbaby.com? oh well then.

Also because we did it with our son. He's unharmed believe me. But if you don't like it, don't do it, quite simply. The advice is just a suggestion for laurabow, not for you.

Well it's not wrong of me to point out that they advice you are giving out isn't endorced by any expert i've ever heard of. I'm no fan of GF but even she doesn't recommend something barbaric like that for babies that young.

I'm a great advocate of a bit of gentle sleep training (PUPD method in my case, so pretty gentle) but not at 8 weeks and not when poorly. That's my personal opinion, same as Lisasister (I note she did say not when ill) but Laura at 8 weeks it's such early days, I really feel uncomfortable with any notion of crying it out

Both my 2 DCs are excellent sleepers now and both when poorly struggled sleeping. You can't spoil a baby at 8 weeks or teach them bad habits.

It's not the light waking them is it? Do you have a black out blind? It's just a thought but it maybe purely down to the fact they feel rotten.

BTW it's unrealistic to expect a baby not to need a feed in the night. I only saw Messylittlemonkeys post a moment ago. Most babies feed at 10ish, 2ish and again at about 6ish in the early days if you're lucky, sometimes more in developmental milestones and growth spurts and it's completely normal. It really is.

Again, the advice was not meant for you, and you've made your point several times. I think we should leave it there.

We have all been waking earlier the past few weeks. It's summer

Regarding routines and poorly children, my 9 year old's routine goes to pot somewhat when he's ill. He'll often stay up later. Sometimes he'll go to bed earlier. And there are times when I still co-sleep with him if he's very unwell (albeit in a double bed in the spare room) because it's horrible to wake up alone and sick and I still need to keep a half-awake eye on him.

Forget the routine for a while, OP, and pick it up again later. You need to cut both your baby and you some slack.

My last post was meant for ABatInBunkFive btw.

Lisassister - This is a public message board people will disagree with you, that's what happens, also means people can make informed decisions.

If you are going to post crap advice expect people to disagree.

facepalm at this whole thread.

So even GF doesn't advocate strictly following a routine when baby is ill... but you're wondering about it. You do realise she's at one extreme of parenting ideas - and by pondering this you're even further along the continuum than her? Does that sound like the ideal mummying recipe for a rounded childhood?

Do you personally eat at exactly the same time of the day EVERY day, fall asleep at exactly the same time EVERY day - even if you're feeling ill? Or do you maybe nibble smaller more frequent meals because you don't have much of an appetite, tend to doze if you're feeling crappy or worse lie awake at night because you can't breathe and it's so annoying. Its probably more than annoying for such a wee baby it's probably a little bit frightening. Have some humanity.

My DS (9 months done everything wrong according to the books ;) ) has just had a tummy upset - he's needed feeding little and often amounts of breast milk (the only thing he can keep down, you'll have to buy lactose free formula if those three hourly routines have scuppered breastfeeding) and he's needed feeding every hour. That's every hour day and night... on NHS Direct orders not those of some woman who's got no childcare qualifications, certainly no child development or medical ones and has never been a mother to a single child. Imagine what that will do to your well thumbed schedule.

That book simply does not work in real life, with things like viruses and teething pains, and little tiny babies having a bit of a bad day in it. I'd use this as an early wake up call and bin that book.

Or you could use it to prop up one end of the cot.

Oh and the crying techniques mentioned above don't work on such a small baby. They are too young to LEARN anything with them. Dear god at that age when you leave the room they genuinely think you've gone for good. They stop crying because they are knackered, not self-settled, just knackered... and probably hoarse.

Please let your baby be a baby and stop demanding that it fit around some schedule that's convenient to you. Babies are pretty inconvenient I'm afraid.

OP sounds like my DH's cousin. She has the naughty step and has had it since her DS was 10 months old!

Crying down is just a polite way of saying crying. I honestly think it's not worth it - the knowledge that you haven't responded to your baby's needs doesn't sit well with me either.

Lisassister Wed 19-May-10 17:16:36 -

The key is to not pick them up and not have eye contact.

Why how strange, how cruel for a little baby.

Blimey, I think you all need to cut the OP some slack.

Yes, the baby is ill, and will need more cuddles/milk etc. and OP, FWIW, I don't think there is much point in routines at this age, nor would I leave a baby that young to cry (and I'll think you'll find GF doesn't advoacte it either). However, you have an 8 week old baby. You are probably knackered. A routine was working for you and now it's fallen down (at least temporarily). You are probably feeling close to despair. IT IS NORMAL TO FEEL THIS WAY. Once the baby is a few weeks older you'll wonder why you were so bothered about this.

Relax and enjoy your baby and worry about routines later. Or not at all!

I understand why the OP and indeed many new mums want a routine - if there was a simple solution to all of the hair-pulling out moments of motherhood who wouldn't want it? But guess what there isn't. Being a new mum is bloody hard work and one book is not going to fix it. Does Gina cover books for four and five year olds? How about teenagers? At some stage the OP is going to have to stand on her own two feet and be a parent not read about it - I'd suggest she do it now not when she runs out of GF books.
Yes littlies like routine, that's why we do our baths the same way and he has the same wind down and snooze ritual - but he has it when he's sleepy not when we decide he should have it. Anything beyond those familiar rhythms to a day is Rainman territory.
A big person making a smaller, weaker one do what they want is bullying. Mothering is about putting the needs of the smaller, weaker person first. I really do think they are that polar opposites.

Sorry for the hyperbole overload but after the week of intensive, getting your hands dirty (ik) 'mothering' I've been doing naughty eight week olds not sticking to the book is just a bit rich.

"Mothering is about putting the needs of the smaller, weaker person first"

I think the emphasis needs to be on "needs", rather than wants. Simply because what a child wants isn't necessarily what they need. "A big person making a smaller, weaker one do what they want" isn't always bullying imo - and giving a child everything they want is not mothering (or rather, parenting.)

Having said that, an 8-week old babies wants probably are the same as their needs, iyswim.

flootshoot's post is very sensible imo.

an 8-week old baby's wants.

I despair of my English these days, I really do

erm...trying not be too stroppy but little babies are still forming their attachment to their mothers. they need to feel secure that if they feel poorly/anxious/whatever that mummy will comfort them no matter what. i dont think that is an unreasionable expectation for an 8 week old baby to have.

my dd (7.5 months) has an almost militarised routine - gf would be ever so impressed but i did nothing whatsoever to encourage it - she just fell into it naturally from about 2.5 months.

whatsmore a couple of times (separate occasions) dd has been poorly and i have struggled to settle her. in the end i gave up and got into bed with her and lay there until she fell asleep and i popped her back in her cot. some would suggest that i am making a rod for my back by doing this......funnily enough she went to sleep the next night and ever since all by herself as she usually does.

tiny babies cannot manipulate you. they cant!

Well I did have a routine at 8 weeks, it was called putting down for a nap every 1 and a half to 2 hours as they simply were tired

Anyway poor OP, she's probably feeling a bit picked on now and her original post wasn't that controversial, albeit talking about following GF who isn't well received on mumsnet. She was just worried about her baby forever needing rocking/ cuddling lots. I too felt this way with my first child when they got poorly but you soon realise that mantra "this too shall pass" and things returning to normal once better.

I liked flootshoot's post.

OP how are things today?

I find putting a drop of olbas/eucalyptus oil on my shirt really helps to clear a stuffy nose so baby can feed properly.

My daily routine involves picking up and feeding the baby when he cries, it makes life much easier/more pleasant for everyone involved inc. me, DS1, DS2, DH, the upstair's neighbours etc.

Your bubs is so little, just let him get over his cold in any way he can and then worry about routines again.

Op, comeback. Have your questions been answered ?
I think the consensus is, when baby is sill, go with it. Then once better, you naturally revert to type.
Actually this is not just true of babies. true of anyone. adults alike. diabetic for over 30 years me. when ill, i do what i want. when better, back to normal.
see ?

I can't believe a simple question/request for advice could cause such conflict.

I'm sure Laurabow wasn't expecting some of the vitriolic comments which have been fothcoming. All she wants is support, not to be made to feel dreadful for following a routine. As a firm believer in routines, I'm horrified by the suggestion that to do so is to 'bully' your baby. Outrageous and totally unhelpful to the OP.

When my DS2 had a cold as a small baby was very phlegmmy and bunged up, we had him sleep in his car seat in the cot. Not sure what anyone has to say about this - it was 7 years ago now and I know guidelines have changed, but it helped him to sleep

OP - my heart goes out to you! First baby and a whole lot of vitriol spat up on you....

AND, I don't think anyone has really answered what I think is at the nub of your question - 'will I be doing this (rocking, etc) forever?' With your first, it really can seem as though any stage is an eternity and will never, ever EVER end.... I remember thinking that we would have to buy DS an adult-sized swing, as he would definitely still be sleeping in his swing at 7 years of age!! Seriously. I can SO relate to the panic and despair you feel when it all goes tits-up (for whatever reason) and you just can't know (cos it's your first, see?) that it will change and all be OK again. WHATEVER you do with a small baby (rocking/co-sleeping/Br/f in demand) you can change and change again. NONE of it is carved in stone.

So, please feel OK about responding to your baby in the way that the baby needs for now, and know that you can revert to what-you-like when the baby is feeling better.

And please be sure and get a break for yourself, too - you deffo need it!