Up all night with baby and toddler driving me crazy, no respite in the week

[MrsJamin]

I'm sure this thread has been done a million time but seriously, with a newborn and a toddler, how do you cope if you do it alone in the week? DS1 is 2.4yrs and DS2 is 2 months, currently waking every hour in the night for feeds, has never done more than a 3 hour stretch and hasn't done for a few weeks. DH works v hard and has a long commute so is out of the house 7.30-7.30. I have both boys 24/7 and I'm getting to the point where I'm really losing my rag with DS1 especially when he hasn't had a nap (like today)- he's your typical toddler, defiant, doesn't listen and a complete livewire at times. I'm trying all the right things, getting out loads, putting DS2 in sling so we can go out and about, going to playgroups in mornings so DS1 can run about while I can look after DS2. Is there anything else I can be doing as I'm just bursting into tears with sleep deprivation on a daily basis.

it shitty at times isn't it?

DD is 7 months old and DS is nearly 4 - DD until 2 weeks ago was waking every 3 hours for a feed at night so i was utterly shattered

you don't need to do loads IMO - a trip out once a day is fine - try to do it in the morning so you can try to encourage a post lunch sleep for everyone

one to one time with your older DS when you can - even though you want to sob with tiredness, a few mins spent doing a puzzle just with him or reading a story will help

reduce everything else you are doing to the bare minimum - housework, cooking etc

it does pass - the first few weeks with a newborn and toddler are very, very hard but it does get easier

Could your toddler go to a playgroup or nursery without you for a few sessions a week? If he is dropping his daytime nap it suggests to me he is old enough to do this and would probably really enjoy it too.

Or, course you hire a mother's help for a few hours a day? This is someone who will come and give you a hand in the home which could include, if you wished, looking after the toddler and baby for a few hours so that you could catch up on sleep.

Otherwise, you just need to go to bed as early as you dare, and get your dh to pitch in properly at the weekend.

do you have anyone that could have your older son for a few hours?

I did this as often as i could, so i just went to bed with DD and fed her and we both dozed

bribe offer a friend a return babysitting session or bottle of wine

Thanks everyone for listening

My mum comes once a week but I don't always want to lumber her with care of DS1, as then DS2 & I don't see her either. We are going to look into having a cleaner (I'm terrible at cleaning- I've used up all my energy by the time I've done the dishes, washing and tidied up). Also we're going to put DS1 into nursery before his free sessions start. He's very sociable and he'll probably love it. This won't be until September though. I'm already dreading the summer holidays when our playgroups will cease and I'll have no structure for the week at all - any tips for that? I find myself wishing I'd had a bigger age gap between the boys as DS1 is so tiring!

Its very hard! I do remember sympathise.

Any chance your mum could come twice a week .

Definitely definitely hire a cleaner if you possibly can.

can i suggest you call your local homestart

im sure it might help even if you just have a cup of tea and chat with a friendly face

Well if it helps I have HUUGE respect for you after reading that. My own two are very close in age to yours and I have been feeling exactly the same sorts of things you describe today - tired and desperate, snappy with the older one, questioning everything I do (or don't do...).

BUT although I'm on my own all day today and tomorrow (and feeling a bit poorly too), I am lucky and have a pretty supportive DH who is usually around for most of the evenings and will help as much as needed. I also have DS in nursery one day a week and usually at his gran's one day as well to give me a bit of a breather, also it sounds like you are getting even less sleep than us.
So given how I feel after just one day without DH, I just have so much admiration for, and sympathy with, anyone who has to cope with that all on their own all the time!

As for things to help, it sounds like you are already doing all the right things, the only other thing that might help is meeting up with/talking to more people. I definitely feel better and more normal the more time I spend with other mums or other people generally, and it definitely helps to pour your heart out to someone after a rough day - I am planning to call my mum tonight for a whinge! Also I often find DS is better behaved when we are with other people than just with me and DH. So get in touch with any mums you know (or use Mumsnet and similar to meet some, if you don't know many) and start arranging meet-ups and also picking their brains about other activities they do where you could join them. I find this better than groups where I don't know anyone particularly, as it's hard to have a real heart-to-heart with near-strangers at playgroups!

There's only 24 mths between mine too.. and I also have a DH who typically doesn't get home until after bedtime.

When DS was a baby DD was at nursery for short sessions, every day. I think she would have been quite bored if not..

But remember, your baby is only 8 weeks! It will all get easier soon..

And it's just the best when they start to play together!

don't feel bad about seeing your mum as this will not last very long and I am sure she will understand.

If you DS1 doesn't nap plonk him in front of the TV for an hour while you rest.

Co sleep with you DS2 at night. My DD2 is (was) an awful sleeper. however, I found that I was much much tireder when I was up and down to her moses basket than when I plugged her in in bed and went back to sleep.

DD2 is 6 months now and life is a lot easier.

I have a similar age group between mine and was feeling exactly the same as you this time last year. It does get better (eventually!). And the pair of them now really are loads of fun and we have some fab times together. I do feel a slight shiver of horror though every time I remember the awful awful weeks when the baby wasn't sleeping.

The main difference I noticed once DS2 started sleeping better and I began to feel more normal, was that I had a bit more imagination and could be so much more creative in handling flashpoint situations with DS1. When I was exhausted I would just get stuck in head-on confrontations, usually with no way out for either of us. When the tiredness wasn't so bad I discovered he could be distracted and cajouled with little stories about his favourite tv/storybook characters and silly games and changing the subject, and so I could pre-empt a lot of the hideous clashes. Try and keep a stock of "did i tell you about when postman pat came to our house" type stories in your head to roll out whenever there might be a run-in approaching.

And try to avoid doing anything in a hurry, trying to rush a toddler is pain at the best of times, when you're shattered too it's always going to end in tears. So be late for everything for a while.

Someone told me that keeping out and about was the best way to get through the day, and we did this fairly manically for a while, but I actually found when we slowed down a bit things got easier (less worrying about being late for one thing). And don't feel bad about overuse of the tv and dvd's etc so you can get a bit of quiet time at home.

And lastly, do go easy on yourself whenever you can and try not to dwell on the awful moments. Eat cake, drink coffee, try and flick through a magazine once in a while and think of something that's nothing to do with children. It really will get so much better.

Wow thanks for your responses everyone. I am blessed with lots of mum friends, both local and virtual, who give me lots of support and cups of tea. Wendell, thank you for typing all that, it makes a lot of sense, I'm intrigued about your postman pat comment, is it just to distract your eldest in his thinking? I'm also coming round to the idea that we were doing too much, going out every morning and afternoon, partly because I feel reaaly claustrophobic being inside for more than 3-4 hours (have a v small house with little view of outside). I need to chill out though because as you say it's when we need to do something quickly that I get frustrated with DS1 as he is just so slow and easily distracted.

Postman pat opener usually led into long drawn out story with postman pat ringing on our doorbell to bring a little boy called DS a great big parcel with something like an elephant inside and then lots more stuff would happen (DS would fill in key info as he got older) and on a good day he would listen so intently to the story that he didn't kick off in usual style as shoes and coat were put on and everyone bundled out of house. Also had bob the builder dramas and often the fat controller was called upon when instructions had to be issued in bossy fat controller voice "really useful engines always sit on their chairs when they are eating their tea." So, basically any old rubbish I could think of just came spouting out of my mouth to keep his attention on what I was saying rather than what we were doing He still loves made up stories but these days it's all about dragons and monsters and he does most of the work!

I do know what you mean about the need to get out - when we slowed down a bit tended to replace the mad rush to get to toddler group at 10 with a wander up to the shops so DS could walk on favourite wall and buy a magazine with a bit of plastic crap on, or pick up some sticks somewhere outdoors, or stand and stare at some interesting new roadworks. Took the pressure off a bit but still got us outside.

Will all get a bit better when we get in to summer and you can just be outside without any real purpose or need to actually get anywhere. There are good times ahead, hand on in there!