Friendless children

[Copper]

Help and advice needed please! My just-9 year old son is really suffering from having no friends. He has been excluded from his preferred friendship group(used to be a happy foursome and now its 3 and 1), and picked on and made fun of by other boys. The school is aware of it and are trying to make new attachments for him, but neither they nor we realised how very unhappy he was.

Big crisis today at breakfast time. I talked to the head, who is going to intervene a bit more strongly, but suggsted counselling via the school nurse, to work on his unhappiness and lack of self-estem (it's been very battered). At school he is clever but deep - not an immediately attractive child unlike his younger brother, but someone who is a good and funny person when he is happy.

Does anyone have any experience of counselling for children this age? Is he likely to be more teased? Is it a 'blame the victim' response, or will it help him to understand that it's not his fault?

The boy who may be one of the leaders in this is moving away in a week. Do I just hope it will improve after he has gone? Do we get the others round one at a time in the holidays to work on getting my son back in favour again? Or should we just cut our losses with them and try to boost his self esteem in other ways (We have been trying that and I don't think it has worked - peer group means a hell of a lot)

I hate to see him so unhappy that the head was amazed to see him smiling and laughing out of school - he doesn't do it in school. Isn't that sad? He has a really strong relationship with his brother, which is perhaps keeping him a bit younger in interests than his peers. Not a footballer. Not allowed out by himself as yet - and currently he wouldn't have anywhere to go as the neutral children are some distance away and the unpleasant ones live close.

I burst into tears talikng to the head: I think I could do it again now.

Copper, it's really hurting you too isn't hun!

I'm not too good at wording my advice so hope this somehow helps.....I was bullied extremely badly when I was a young girl and all through my teens as well and now I'm a parent I hope the experience will help me should my son ever encounter the same problem. All I can say is that I eventually got on with other chldren and made a new group of friends and then the bullies seemed to back off. It was really difficult because i was being picked on by people I regarded as my friends! I made new friends by joining (wait for it) the brownies and then went onto the girl guides. Because it was a locally run thing I found LOADS of other girls who went were also at my school but i'd never really noticed them before as prospective mates but the friendships at brownies/guides then over spilled into school. I also saw my new brownie friends outside of school & brownie times as well. Maybe if you introduced your son to this sort of thing it might help like it helped me (obviously cubs/scouts though). It may also boost his confidence, give him new interests and he may have more to talk about at school to friends old & new. The environment of cubs/scouts is also a friendly atmostphere and Im sure he'll get a warm welcome. Building relationships with new friends and learning to get on with people is all in the 'running' of it. My friend has just started her son at cubs and she says it's been brilliant for him. The sort of things they do is also quite good it really teaches them things, which is quite beneficial as well (first aid, cookery, camping etc etc). Hope this make sense, I'm not too good at spelling or putting my thoughts into words. Worth a try maybe.....

This has always been me and it is NEVER NEVER the child's fault if he or she is bullied. After years of counselling I have just reaslised this. Things might get better but really I still have no friends. But as long as I tell myself it is their fault not mine I am ok.

I agree with Dixie, find him some friends outside school like cubs or something like first aid, are they called Badgers? They really know how to boost kids confidence. Perhaps try a swimming class if he might give that a go. Choose a 'nice' friend, and take them both to see a must-see film or day out. What about taking the dog to training classes?! Or Grandma's dog?! Perhaps a rescue cat/dog if you have the room, get him involved in the care etc. I know from bitter experience about the 1+3 experience. My daughter at 15 is having the same sort of problems and I could die for her. She is such a loyal kind girl, all I want is for her to find someone who will be the same for her. I know its a learning curve but I could weep for her its so painful. My son asked me once why I go to see the school if there is a problem, and seemed amazed when I told him I do it because I love him and care very much about his happiness. I don't think he had made the connection. I think he thought I liked to upset him by going in to see 'Miss'! Give your son something to look forward to outside school that he does which is his and not dependent on the fickle school group. The trouble is, all they want is membership of that damn fickle group!! Sorry to rant on, I was bullied too and it makes my blood boil now when I see or hear of it.

I don't think I know. My last "best friend" told me lies and stood me up. My friend prior to that, didn't even bother getting me a birthday present and both of them knew what I had been through. I do try and ring people but they never come.

Jack has lots of friends. I do see my ex-partner but for Jack's sake more than anything. We do try - he does our ironing and I do his Sunday dinner in return.

It isn't my fault.

hello been there done that my son is 8 and we have had and still have the 3 and 1 syndrome.
what i do is speak to the parents and try and work something out if you cant do this then ask him if there is a friend at school or nearby he would like to invite round to play.
hope this helps oh and ALWAYS tell him how special he is and that its thier loss and not his cause he will make lots of new friends and try to get him involved in a club mabye even run through the school....

I always think bullies should be expelled. We have got to realise that when kids don't speak to other kids, they are bullying them. We still seem to think that bullying means name calling or physical violence.

copper, it is a sad fact of life that some people - not just kids - for some reason (inadequacies in themselves presumably) actually get satisfaction from hurting, upsetting and excluding others.

they are sad and pathetic for behaving like this but, particularly for kids, knowing that doesn't help the ones on the receiving end.

if you are right about the one who is moving away, your son may well be "allowed" back in by the other 2. maybe the one who is leaving has been behaving like that because he feels insecure about leaving?

i have 4 children and 3 of them have gone through this to a certain extent, partly because they are nice kids, polite and thoughtful, and will say to a group "can i play" to which at least 1 child will always say no, go away. if they just jumped in they would get on better! anyway, the older 2 are absolutely fine now; the youngest (8) still gets it a bit but we reassure him that the problem is not his and he copes. (he's not a footballer either!)

who does your son WANT to be friends with? his old group or somebody new? if you can't allow him out on his own to where the neutral children are, could you stroll over with him, see who is about, ask one or more back to your house (where you can earwig a bit)? the break from school will help his feelings a lot and, if he does still want to be friends with the other 2 boys, then do invite them over in the holidays, and maybe try to discuss with their parents what has been going on, and try to put the "unpleasantness" behind you all...

i'm not surprised you are so upset about it. it is a horrible situation for all of you. the very best thing you can do for your son is to keep reinforcing the message that HE is ok, he is a good person, but if poss without being too negative about the others...a tall order!

i don't know about counselling - i would be inclined to avoid it myself but i have no experience of it and who knows if it would help him or not? have you discussed it with him?

good luck, anyway, to all of you, he sounds like a lovely boy and he will be ok in the end!

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I saw a book in the library on Saturday '101 ways to deal with bullying' by M Elliot. I had a quick look through and she suggested judo or some kind of martial arts too and also checking out the local college for things like art and craft - pottery being another suggestion. Also museum and library passes too. The other thing I noticed was a list of things the child does well to be hung in a prominent place. hope things get better soon.

I am a black belt in Karate and started for self defence purposes. I know people think that if a child goes to Karate then he will learn to fight, but this is the opposite. If you find a good club then they are taught respect and discipline and that karate is to be used for self defence only. If our instructor had heard of any of us using our karate to start trouble we would have been removed from the club. Just knowing that your son did a marial art then the bullies will probably back off.

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I don't feel I have any friends - I know quite a few people but they are all in friendships, call each other up, go to cafes, each other's homes etc, while I'm just everyone's acquiantance and nobody's friend. I feel very sad about it. It has always been this way for me. I am now worried that it will affect my son. Today at a playgroup there were 3 other kids, and he just played on his own and watched them all playing together. It has made me feel really sad this afternoon.
I don't want him to be friendless like me.
Does anyone know how I can help him (& maybe myself?).

Bo - my Mum always taught me that the secret to making friends is to forget about yourself. In other words, instead of focusing on your own shyness or insecurities, you have to genuinely become interested in the other person. I've moved eight times in 15 years, and I know what an effort it can be to establish friendships. Of course the 'spark' of true friendship can't be manufactured or forced, but you do have to make the effort to 'put yourself out there', if things are to develop.
I'm sure there are all sorts of people around you who would love to befriend you, but perhaps you don't appear interested or in need of them. Maybe you need to be a bit more proactive in seeking out like-minded people. Please don't give up - your message sounds so sad. It really doesn't have to be that way. Try to get out there and see if you can start to change things for yourself and your son. Issue a few invitations or make some playdates, and see what happens. Good luck!

Bo, you've made the first step coming on here!! I used to be seduced by the idea of popping into friends houses for a coffee, going off here there and everywhere, all those good things that everyone makes out they do. But I found I wasn't exactly comfortable with this when I actually shifted myself and made the effort!! I have tons of acquaintances but very few close friends - and if I'm honest - thats the way I actually like it! My close friends are ones I'd walk through fire for and vice versa, but I don't need to see them every day. The next time one of these acquaintences says how about coffee gird up your loins and say yes, no matter how much of the earth you'll have to move to get there! I did (cringing inside as I said yes!) and ended up part of the coffee morning circle, I made my own friends from there and promptly dropped out. Perhaps your little boy is taking his cue from you - being careful and observant before diving in! Also we are all afraid of being rebuffed or hurt. If this happens have a good weep, blow your nose, have a moan on here and move on - life is really too short. Find something you can do with your little one - take him to swimming classes - you'll meet plenty of people at these classes and everyone will be in the same boat. Cheer up, we're all here for you.

on womans hour today they mentioned that on friday (i think) they are having a discussion about children and friendship...not sure of the timing or details but the womans hour website probably will have them!

it is a phone-in on friday, the phone no if you want to contribute is - i think - 08700 100 400 (it's the general R4 number i think) though i might just be a digit or so out!

Thanks everyone for you advice. We are trying pretty well all of it! I'll let you kknow how it goes