Language development in 'childcare' vs 'stay-at-home children'

[Snuppeline]

Hello, I am wondering what the wise women of Mumsnet think on this topic. I had dinner with a few friends who all have children around the same age, 18 months. Some of our children are in nursery while others are at home with their mothers. The mothers who stayed at home claimed that their one-to-one attention at home gave their children a language developmental advantage in that they would pick up words quicker. Do you agree? And what should parents do, besides the regular 'reading to your child' trick to get their child talking more? Is there a difference between the children who attend nursery and those who stay at home in other areas too (positive or negative)?

rubbish rubbish rubbish. There will always be a debate about this, but in my opinion, if it's a good nursery where they are spoken to, there's no difference. The personality of the child and their own 'schedule of development' will make a difference.

Some children are shy and don't do so well at nursery, don't adapt quickly, don't communicate well with nurses or with other kids. Down to personality. Others will thrive and speak earlier.

Some kids just learn to speak later, wether they are at home or at nursery.

Some disadvantages of being at home I think is that I don't do that many activities with them that involve messy play, it's just too much work. I would never do glitter and foot print painting at home!! but children do that in nursery.

Also, in my experience, at nursery children are more exposed to a wide variety of food and might be less fussy as they have to eat what's there or they get nothing. My two are at home with me and fussy eaters!!

Nurseries are not there to train children to be little adults, I've never heard such rubbish in my life. It is my choice to stay with my kids at home but I do not judge women who decide and have to go back to work. I admire them a lot actually.

we do plenty of messy play, we have a seperate room for it, he even helped me decorate it with his handprints lol, he also has a very varied diet, i have italian and french ansestory, and have family who live in africa and japan, and they send me recipies often, he actually loves strong foods and smells.

If you want to do these things with your children at home you can do it, it just takes a little pre planning and a bit more effort.

He will be going to the nursery adjoined to his local primary school when he turns 3, but thats only for 2.5 hours a morning, i think that its important for him to get some other imput and experience apart from me, but its not needed right now.

of course i am lucky i can be here for my child/ren, i would love to put him into a montessori nursery at 3ish part time, but none of the ones here are good enough IMO.

Oh you perfect mum you I'm so jealous.

oh please, i haven't said or implied im perfect and wouldn't dream of doing so,, thinking that yourself tells me you feel lacking in your own abilities.

Why is OTT getting a hard time Blueberry?

She isn't saying that it's wrong to put babies in nursery, she just didn't want to put her child in one.

You made an assumption that babies who aren't in nursery miss out on messy play and food options, OTT responded that hers doesn't.

OTT maybe you can post some of your african and japanese recipes in the food section, I'd love to try them.

well, i agree that speech delay is not a reason to put your kid into nursery (although it could have a positive effect on that, you never know) because there are so many other considerations to that.

although i think HCPs do like to worry people alot about thigs like talking later - it is hard not to get 'tot envy' when other peoples toddlers talk to you in playroup and yours can't even say 'thank you' to the the ther mums. This would make you want to do something about it.

my sons faviourite african dish, is pap and gravy with usually lamb pr chicken thighs, its quite filling and he had it every week in winter lol,

pap is basically a fine maize - you can find this in any exotic superstore, its boiled with water, its bland, almost like stiff mash, so we only need a little, and the gravy is not what us brits would think of, its rather thin and more like a hot broth/soup, i make it with tomatoes, onions and bell peppers, i sometimes use garlic, not really a tradtional ingrediant but its nice.
and the recipie my second cousin sent over used chicken feet lol, so i substited that with lamb braised with paprika and spinach - another substitute for greens they use over there.

we also often have grilled meats- especially pork or lamb with the gravy or stewed squash, we don't often eat african meals in spring summer as its quite a substantial meal to make, not technicaly, but you have to take your time with eating it.

my second cousins husband is from a masi tribe and they live in Nairobi now, their food is somewhat inspired by asian spices now shes got the hang of cooking, they are more available than traditonal herbs etc.

too be honest the only japanese recipie we all like is a stronger version of miso broth we almost boil and drain dried shitake mushrooms or kelp - comes in a little jar, and add to undon noodles and soy sauce, i add things like spring onions or seafood

we don't like the rice dishes my uncle sends over although im not sure i bought the right sought lol.
but we always try them if not too far fetched!
sometimes i think they send me the weirdest recipies as a joke lol. including chicken intestines and brains etc

I'm not sure if the original poster says that nursery would help a child with a speech delay, but rather asks if a child who stays at home with mum or dad has a better chance of speaking earlier compared to a child who is in a nursery setting. In my experience and my friend's, I would not make that assumption.

I have a son who has a severe speech delay and he has always been with me at home, together with older brother, who spoke at a very normal age and has an amazing vocabulary. At 2 and 5 months DS2 had only two words and was not babbling (he couldn't say BA or BOO or WA or TA, there were NO sounds except MMMMM). Now, at 2 years 10 months, he has well over 500 words and makes sentences - now can say two sentences that complement each other (such as 'look a fire engine. Fire engine at traffic light'). His speech is not very clear but it should sort itself out with help from us and from therapist.

I personally have never felt a competition between my and the other mums because of the speech delay - but I was worried that my child's delay had a more serious underlying cause. He has been checked by many professionals and his only delay in development is his expressive speech (there are broadly two types of speech delays, expressive - inability to produce speech and receptive, difficulty processing the words heard. They are both brain development issues, and no matter how much I was talking to him he simply could not express the words).

Anyway, I can honestly say that his speech developed after:

• starting weekly drama sessions!
• starting a pre-school 2 mornings a week
• DS1 starting nursery five mornings a week
• group-based speech therapy
• letting him watch the stupid bbc program 'in the night garden'. One of the first thing he said was 'me me me me me' like the little pontipines...

Would his speech have developed differently if in nursery? probably not. Would I have felt guilty about it and blamed me having to work and the nursery environment? Yes, probably!!!

Anyway, my point is that a child staying at home with a parent doesn't 'prevent' a speech delay, neither does going to a nursery. It is mostly due to a brain development issue (except in extreme cases when babies are not spoken to at all). I spoke the same way, same amount to both my children, and I talk a lot.

Final point, sorry about the long post, some people ask me what's the rush, why are you worried about his speech developing later? My answer to that is I would like his speech issues to be 'solved' before he starts school. I think that there is a big link between the ability to express yourself and confidence, and I would like him to remain a confident and happy child. I don't want him to be unhappy at school because he can't express himself.

OK back to original post, talking a lot doesn't always work. So tips I've learned on how to encourage child to say stuff:

• Blow bubbles and count 1-2-3 and wait for them to say something (any sound) before blowing the bubble. The expectation is so much fun. If they say 'go' praise a lot.
• repeat what they say, wether it's a sound, a babble, a raspberry. It says to them that you understand his 'language'
• when they babble or say anything at all, pay attention as if he was saying something really important
• let them lead play, and 'narrate' what they are doing instead of trying to tell them what to do
• make lots of sounds for airplanes, cars, animals, that's a pretty obvious one and we all do it
• speak in short sentences
• encourage musical instruments and anything that makes a noise and encourage them to imitate the sound
• Give him time to answer, including questions from strangers (for example, before my son was talking, people would ask him 'what's your name' and he would look at them without saying anything. The adult would say something like 'well, don't be shy, I won't bite you' (grrr). I would always explain to them that he had a speech delay, and ask the question again. Give him time to think. Then I would make a joke out of it : Is your name George? He would shake his head to say no. Is it Anita? Is it Charlie? then he would laugh, and I would say 'your name is Billy, Billy. It's a lovely name, Billy'. Anyway, just give them time and try to take the pressure off)
• Read a book called 'it takes two to talk'. It's brilliant.

So long as they are being talked to, read to and hearing speech I can't see that it matters too much.

DD went to nursery from 5 months for 2 days a week, had a day with MIL, 2 days with me and a weekend with me and DH.

She spoke early, but not sure which exposure did it.

TBH though partly is may be genetic. I spoke early, my little sister spoke early and my mum spoke early. Maybe that is why DD did too.

The happiness of the mother is an important factor in speech development. If a child grows up with a severely depressed mother then that will affect speech development.

My son's speech was delayed due to glue ear. When that was sorted his speech really took off.

I believe that daycare increases the risks of glue ear. However there are hundreds of factors that affect the development of speech.

Interesting thread.

None of my 3 dcs were in nursery until 3yrs but they have all developed language at different rates.

I used to wonder about this topic when I would see the ladies from the local daycare pushing the toddlers in the double buggies when they were out for their daily walk. I used to feel a bit sorry for the kids just having to sit there and not being able to get out and look at anything. Me and my dcs used to spend so much time just pottering about at that age, going for really slow walks, stopping to look at every little thing. I'm sure they learned a lot of language that way - they learn best when you talk about something they are interested in at that moment. We could easily spend 10 minutes poking at a stick and chatting about it.

Having said that the nursery children probably do a much wider range of structured activities than I could be bothered doing at home, so maybe it doesn't make a huge amount of difference in the end.

I suspect the reasons behind language delay are complex. I'm sure most children learn language fine in any environment, whereas a child who is not so well wired for language in the first place would suffer more in an unstimulating envirnment of any kind.

Thanks everyone for responding. Quite a few good anecdotes with some good ideas in them for things I can do. I feel a bit more confident that although I expected my daughter to be more 'fluent' by now she'll get there too. I think that because I was very early when I was a child, speaking in two-three word sentences when I was 1 and that sort of thing (if I can fully trust my darling mother that is). I did grow up with an older brother (nearly 3 when I was born) so perhaps having (or not having) an elder sibling helps too? Children do copy quite a lot and it might be better to copy a slightly older, yet not too much older, child. Oh well, that's another discussion in its own right.

I don't think we have solved the problem yet and I too would like to see something, with some scientific basis, written about it. Who knows perhaps MN will in due course?

I thi8nk nursery children may well talk earlier because they have to make their needs understood to a wider variety of people more clearly. But I think they may not develop the emotional intelligence as quickly as stay at home children because they have less time one-on-one with an adult helping them to deal with their feelings. I think at home children may develop subtlty in their communication earlier.

i think there are plenty such studies out there into language acquisition and the affet of socialisation.. a thorough google search would probably turf up some results. Am too tired to do it myself...

This is very interesting on the subject of late-talking children. In particular, this bit:

'The study found that a mother's education, income, parenting style or mental health had no impact on a child's likelihood of being a late talker.

Study Coordinator Associate Professor Kate Taylor said the findings debunked common myths about why children are late talkers.

"Some people have wrongly believed that delayed language development could be due to a child not being spoken to enough or because of some other inadequacy in the family environment," Associate Professor Taylor said.

"This is clearly not the case and I hope these findings will reassure many parents that delayed language is not a reflection on their parenting or the child's intelligence.

"What we also know from this study is that most children who are late talkers do in fact fall into the normal range of language development by the time they are seven years old."'

ds2 language isn't great either, I'm a full time mum and he doesn't watch TV at all (not interested!!). Turns out poor little things ears were completely blocked with wax so he couldn't hear me at all. He had them syringed a few weeks ago and I've seen improvements already - its probably worth getting it checked

As a SAHM I found it very easy not to take to my small child, even though I am a very attentive mum, it is just in my nature to be quiet and I found myself really having to remind myself to actually talk to my baby/toddler. Which is one of the reasons why their english is behind their flemish, as I am virtually their only source of english.