How would you have dealt with this 4 year old tantrum ?

[amiheckaslike]

because I am cocking up royally at the moment.

Background: gorgeous generally well behaved 4.5 year old who seems to be having a testorone surge. Gorgeous boy however doesn't sleep well at all and I am shattered - not helped by DH being away during the week.

The tantrum: Back late tonight after visitng DS1s friend for tea which we do every Friday. DS2 (1) desperate to go bed and very whiney but DS1 and me fine and calm.

ME: please brush your teeth I'll keep DS2's door open while I settle him so I can see you. Repeat 6 or 7 times. (Totally normal for DS1 to brush teeth while DS2 goes to bed)

ME: please don't walk round with your toothbrush it will drip toothpaste on the new carpet (repeat 4 or 5 times).

DS1: stops brushing teeth and argues endlessly and loudly that he wasn't walking around.

ME: please brush your teeth (x6) BRUSH YOUR TEETH I AM GOING TO CLOSE DS1'S DOOR SO HE CAN GET TO SLEEP.

DS1: pushes door open (x3)

ME: DO NOT DO THAT AGAIN I AM TRYING TO GET YOUR BROTHER TO SLEEP WHO IS TIRED BECAUSE WE WERE AT YOUR FRIENDS.

DS1: kicks door open.

ME: RIGHT - stomp off carrying DS1 to our room (where he sleeps). Close the gate on the landing so he can't get back into DS2's room.

DS1: SHOUTS, SHOUTS, SHOUTS, DS2 crying eyes out by now.

ME: Right to bed now, no story.

DS1: I HATE YOU, YOU'RE AN IDIOT and hits me on the back.

ME: DON'T YOU EVER HIT OR CALL ANYONE IN THIS HOUSE AN IDIOT SHOUT SHOUT SHOUT. NEXT WEEK WE WILL NOT GOT TO X'S HOUSE.

DS1: SHOUT SHOUT. YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

ME; Right I am so angry I am going downstairs for 5 minutes and I am closing the stairgate behind me. Calm down and stop making a noise or you will wake your brother (who has gone to sleep).

DS1: ITS YOUR FAULT, YOU'RE HORRIBLE, COME BACK COME BACK COME BACK (X100)

ME: RIGHT WE WILL NOT GO TO X'S HOUSE FOR 2 WEEKS.

DS1: NOOOOOOOOOOO. I'LL BE GOOD, I'LL BE GOOD, COME BACK COME BACK WE WILL GO TO X HOUSE WE WILL WE WILL WE WILL. I WANT TO APOLOGISE.........BLAH BLAH BLAH. ITS YOUR FAULT.

ME (deep breathing): bed time, come on. I'm not cuddling until you listen to me.

I then give a long long lecture on how we don't hit, I didn't like being called an idiot with DS basically arguing that it wasn't being late home that made him tired and he didn't like me. Later decided he did love me but I wasn't nice. Fell asleep frome xhaustion but very angry with his shouty mummy again.

Ok thanks for staying with me. I should have chilled about the teeth brushing shouldn't I ?? But after that what would you have done ?

Well I dare say I would have done the same as you.

My DD is 4.5 and DS is 1 and most of her tantrums are all around attention. It sounds to me like your DS was over tired and wanted your attention and was going to grab it in anyway he could (which meant having a tantrum).

If it doesn't happen again I wouldn't worry too much. Also, at this age I don't hink they have any real concept of time (DD doesn't) so saying something isn't going to happen for 2 weeks probably wont sink in.

When I am calm and have my wits about me I usually deal with this type of situation by giving DD a big cuddle, asking her to help me with DS and promising her something in a little while (hug, story, sticker). It helps me to remember that she is still very very young at 4.5 and still a baby in many ways, it makes me gentler with her iykwim.

Don't beat yourself up, btw. We all have have bad times and at least your here asking for some advice (so obviously your not a bad mum).

that could have happened in our house. I try - I really do - to remain calm, but sometimes my son makes me so bloody angry that I shout back. Today I even swore. So at least you didn't do that....

Yes, you should have chilled out about the brushing. It is important, but he was v tired & I don't think ( as a dental nurse with 15yrs exp) not doing it once would have hurt.

I think it was probably too late to be having all that out with him, tbh.

You started the shouting, which he copied.

I also think, that at 4 he is old enough to be told in the morning that you don't call people idiots etc. Once in bed, you should have cuddled him & kissed him goodnight, so you ended on a good note.

Have a nice glass of wine put your feet up and say to yourself "that went well".

I don't think you cocked up royally, fwiw

Fairly typical, end of day, tiredness-fuelled tantrum, no?

Obviously it's good to try and not shout at your DC, but I think the majority of parents have resorted to this on occasion...

I recently started telling DD1 that I cannot hear her when she is being screechy and shouty and I woudl speak to her when she could speak properly. Then I walk away.
it did not go down well at first but in the last few days she has got it and as soon as she starts shouting I say it and leave the room/area. Within a few seconds she calms down and either comes to me for a cuddle and reassurance or goes and sits on the sofa with a book.

I found it worked as it meant I could distance myself from her before I completely lost it. At first she did follow me and grab at me but I just ignored her apart from removing her hands from me.

Sounds like a fairly standard end to a busy day when we are all tired and not at our best.

Tomorrow will better!

Oh yes. I have to count the number of shouts I've had each day

Am relieved to read this actually, I seem to end up nagging/negotiating/shouting/threatening/bargaining and most importantly:

Feeling guilty

Nearly everyday! After something has ended badly can alway mentally "hear" Jo Frost's voiceover saying how I could have improved things.

However, we are their parents, we love them and minor parental ishoos will be forgotten (after a glass of wine!)

That sort of thing happens a good few times a day in our house. I was hoping that it was just cos DD is a threenager. Am a bit that it carries on into the 4s!!!!

This sounds so familiar!
You haven't cocked up royally. This is what 4yr olds do!
I spent countless hours asking ds1 at that age to do things and he seemed to ignore me and then get cross with me if I got irritated. Ds2 is now 5 but he's just the same - and am afraid it doesn't necessarily get any better

They get tired, they don't know how to deal with it and it then means they don't tune in to most things and then when they do they blurt out things in frustration.
Pick your battles, if he's really tired and if it's going to cause a big scene and it's something fairly unimportant in the big scheme of things then let it slide but if it's a big thing and important to maintain the rules to be consistent then you have to just get your armour on and prepare for some resistance. He shouldn't have called you an idiot but I bet as soon as he'd said it he knew that he really shouldn't have said it and if he's anything like my dcs, he will be twice as affectionate in the morning because he knows he overstepped the line

I agree with MyCat that he is still really little at 4.5

I think I expected too much of my eldest when he was a similar age and it is only now I see him older and compare him to his younger sibling that I can see it.

If brushing his teeth alone isn't working (it still doesn't when he is really tired and he is nearly 7) I'll find him something calming and nice to do on his own(eg phone grandma, watch a short episode on DVD, draw a pitcure to welcome Daddy home) while I deal with the younger one.

It's counter intuitive. When they are tired, you think 'gotta get them to bed asap' but sometimes it works out better to take it slower even if they do end up in bed later.

For us, not them!

Not condoning drugging children to make them forget my mistakes.....but on the other hand.....

Thanks everyone. You're all right ofcourse (even though there's two trains of thought).

I am really bothered by my shoutiness and general snappiness at the moment. I have always thought its not my way of doing things at all but all the evidence suggests the contrary at the moment. I'm so so tired as DS1 still doesn't sleep through the night.

I think I'm also quite shocked by the change in him since reception. He is still an absolutely lovely boy obviously (when not calling me an idiot and whacking me in the back) but there is a temper and a way of reacting which I haven't seen before (apart from in myself - lightbulb moment) and also some of the phrases he uses seem so grown up and I need to find a way to make sure I don't over-react.

ofcourse Darcymum I do also need a large glass of wine because that indeed did go very well!

It is a bit of an eye opener when dcs start school and seem to change before your very eyes! It's often a phase of them testing what is acceptable at home after being exposed to other children's behaviour and phrases.
You're not alone in having times when al you seem to do is snap and shout - easily done when you're tired but if often means your child then gets irritable and shouty in response!

In all honesty amiheckaslike, that is really reassuring to read. Over the last few months DD1 has started answering back and being really cheeky, name calling etc and I hadn't clicked the school link. She has been going a year but recently startewd making lots of new friends after overcoming shyness. It's so weird.