Ok, I really could use some help here...ds's friend with AS

[Flightattendant]

I'm struggling with what to do...absolutely knackered so will prob go offline shortly, but thought I'd post and see if there were any opinions or thoughts regarding what to do.

Ds1 is 6 and a half. When he started this school in yr1, he was sat next to a little boy with Aspergers, who had not made many friends but apparently they hit it off straight away and became very close friends.

Fast forward to yr 2 and they are still buddies although ds keeps being anxious that his friend (I'll call him Jack) doesn't like him any more...ds is quite insecure, so I have done the usual talking through and explaining about friendships etc.
I have never really spent time with Jack so don't know what he is like but he seems sweet and jolly in the playground after school, and they seem to share lots of little in jokes. ds is NT afaik...I prob have AS...so never thought I would have a problem with it as such.

Anyway, we have had one outing for ds' birthday last year and Jack's dad came too - it was OK, they mucked about and played.

Ds went to Jack's for tea last term and apparently had a good time, not sure what they did etc.
So we invited Jack, and he came here tonight.

I don't know what happened but it was not a huge success. The weather was awful, ds2 screamed from the off, and both ds and Jack were given chocolate (large bars, flakes I think) by someone whose birthday it was...I think this may have been partly to blame.

They were both very overexcited, rushed about, knocing ds2 over playing 'hide from ds2' and other quite nasty games including antagonising ds2 further and 'hide from your mum' which I didn't really encourage...
so I politely asked them to go in ds's room and play with the lego.
This didn't go down well with Jack especially and there was some indignance from both...I gave them nice food I'd got specially with ds' help (what does Jack like etc) and continually gave them these nice things to help themselves to, with not a single 'mmm that looks nice' or 'thankyou' or anything at all. It was more like 'get out the way, we are busy'.
Jack started getting very cross with ds, and started having a go at him about really daft things, to which ds replied with a humble apology every single time, trying to placate Jack. It was horrible to watch so I intervened with a 'Now, let's not get upset'

and everything was no good, wrong, made Jack cross...it just felt like such a disaster, ds is still really, really upset - we took Jack home after tea and it was still the criticism, the outbursts at ds all the way home. Ds really cried when we got home, and I asked if Jack was always like this to him at school and he said, yes, often he tells me off'.
I feel like a failure that nothing we did to make him feel OK worked...we tried so hard.

i am aware that AS is a very tricky thing and in NO way Jack's fault, and am assuming that some of this behaviour was due to it - despite probably having it I am ignorant about it, for which I apologise.

I don't want to break their friendship, nor do I want to mention it to Jack's parents, or anyone else (apart from anonymously here)
and certainly don't want to be feeling the way I do towards him at this point, because he is just little, and can't help being like that.

But ds has been increasingly anxious about everything recently and I wonder if this is having a really marked effect on his self esteem, being criticised and told off constantly for nothing. He blames himself for things randomly at home, which he never used to do.

My question is how to approach this without sustaining damage to either child or the relationship (albeit vague) that I enjoy with his parents. I want them to get on but not at the expense of ds feeling like he is a good person - he has been saying sorry all evening for Jack's behaviour, for upsetting Jack, making Jack not like him any more, spoiling the whole thing - when it was very very clear to me during the event that ds was doing nothing wrong whatsoever.

He's miserable - I'm miserable - God knows how Jack feels but maybe being here was too strange for him, and it was an extreme side of his character? I really, really don't want him here again, and I was so looking forward to it

Thanks - and please don't take offence if your child has AS, I know a few and even if they can be forthright the others are not constantly on the attack, and do say thanks for things etc. Please help.

So sorry,that's really long - and in the wrong topic. Gahhh.

Flightattendant - I have no experience of AS children but my ex-H has AS and while I know he can't help certain behaviours, it doesn't stop them hurting me and affecting my self esteem. It sounds very much as if your DS is suffering from this close friendship - he loves Jack, but Jack's company isn't always good for him. Perhaps the best thing would be for your DS to have a wider circle of friends if that's possible? Does he go to clubs or have hobbies outside of school with different friends? Maybe if you invite Jack home next time, you could ask another 1 or 2 friends to diffuse/dilute the intensity of the relationship? Your DS sounds a lovely, kind boy but I know from experience of my ex-H that AS relationships can be very intense and quite obsessive which isn't good for anyone involved.

Thankyou so much Hormones...I was terrified I'd be accused of prejudice and of hating someone because of something he can't help - which I don't, of course I don't, he is a sweet little boy - but you have hit it on the head, his behaviour whilst possibly being unavoidable for him, makes ds (and me!) feel really bad

Ds does have other friends at school but is very attached to this one, which now I have witnessed the dynamic really worries me in case I have set him up to believe he somehow deserves this treatment.

He has one other friend who isn't very nice to him either...the rest seem fairly OK!

I will work on encouraging the other friendships, perhaps - but don't want to leave this little chap without any friends as I know people with AS can develop into really superb friends and kind, sensitive adults - it's just the bit in between when he is learning how to consider other people, that is such hard work.

Thanks again, will think on it tonight...there must be an answer.

I agree with hormones, I think more/other friends would be good, if he spends too much time with Jack your son may start to think it's him that's in the wrong or different etc. How about beavers, karate or a football club?

I would consider talking to jack's parents though, after all they live with it everyday and will probably be able to help you with dealing with it. A lot of the time it isn't raising the issue it's how it's raised. I know many AS people can have 'triggers' that can set them off, changing plans and/or routine is a common one, as is unusual surroundings and/or people. How about asking Jack and his Mum over, that way you get to talk and the children get to play together, with the presence of his mother Jack may feel more stable, and so not fly off the handle as he has done.
I'm also with you on the flake thing too, AS is often accompanied by ADHD, could be good to ask if Jack is allowed sugar, if not there are tons of alternatives out there.

From an ASC point of view, it may have felt like this to Jack:

Weather awful - can feel like being plunged into a bucket of ice to us.

DS2 screaming- louder than a jet engine next to us thanks to oversensitive hearing.

Lots of new food - that means different tastes, textures, smells, sensation of hot/cold.

Running around trying to fit in with whatever game has just been invented - very often children with an ASC will play in ways more suited to a child way younger than them, hence the clumsy approach.

New environment (your house) meaning that there is a massive amount of information to process about where he is and what to do, all being channelled through brain wiring hardly big enough to handle just one thing. Plus new people to socialise with (ds2, you).

End result - absolutely no power to fire up the 'social niceties' bit of the brain, hence the lack of thanks. And because an overheated brain actually hurts many of us like hell, it turns into anger and criticism. Is this acceptable? Nope. But it is probably inevitable given that scenario and given the ASC. Not your fault in the slightest - it takes ages to work out how an ASC brain works.

Solution? Definitely requires school, support, home and specialists to work with Jack on how to balance his energy so that he doesn't end up so overloaded that he's rude and aggressive with others. The more the world around him is predictable and quiet, the easier it will be for him to remember his manners. With any ASC child I've had in the house, they get nothing until they say please and thank you, and I always ensure they have some quiet time and a corner they can escape to for unwinding in. Works for me too though at my age I've learned my manners.

Intense!
I have child with ASD and i make this very short - talk to 'Jack' parents!
We (the other parents) of children with special need know what to do and are happy to help and explain to others. I hope his parent would appreciate your comments as much as I would, better then barking friendship
Good luck

my ds is HFA/aspergers, as AlessB suggest i would talk to the mum. And as amberlight comments there are lots of things for Jack to process. might be good to meet sometimes inin a neutral place, park or some activity.

if i find ds getting to intense and controlling, i remove him from the room till his calm down, does not usually take long

Does he sit next to Jack at school? Perhaps he could sit next to someone else and only see Jack at playtime? You might want to talk to the teacher next year.

Nothing to do with AS... just about your son!

Your son needs better boundaries.

i.e. He needs to know when somebody is behaving unreasonably towards him. Or when someone is being rude to him.

Then he needs to learn to say something about it which stops the other boy behaving like that.

Of course, he also needs to learn that HE is worthy of being treated well. There is nothing about him which deserves this reaction. He is a normal boy etc.

Poor DS and poor Jack. Agree with amberlight that the new surroundings might have been too much. And agree talk to jacks mum. Could the school help out eg some TA sessions helping jack to practice positive behaviour while your DS workson setting boundaries?

Agree with Starlight, but Mumbo is making an important point as well. Your DS need to be more assertive. I am also a AS mum and I would add that it is as much about communication as about overload. Jack indeed is overwhelmed. But more importantly he does not understand the impact of his behaviour on your DS.
The reason for the criticism is probably also to do with communication. AS people do not understand the mental states of others - it is called theory of mind- they cannot predict how other people are thinking. They tend to assume that their friend thinks and feels the same they do. They also assume and expect that their friends and family know how they are feeling and what they are talking about even if they don't give enough explanations. Jack's criticism might be sign of misunderstanding and also a call for help. Jack might be hoping that his friend (your DS) will help to put right the things that upset him and he becomes even more upset because your DS does not react in the way Jack expects, so he criticises him some more.

Jack cannot learn without direct feedback - your DS needs to push back, but in a sensitive way.Of course this needs to be addressed with the support of Jack's parents and the SEN professionals. You should let the parents and possibly the school know how this affects your son. The TA (if Jack has a statement) would advise what to do. If Jack does not have a statement the impact on your son would help to get more support from professionals to help to improve the dynamic of the relationship.