Mother and Son - what is the secret?

[koalabear]

I am not sure if this topic has been done before - I couldn't find it in the archives.

I have a 15 month old son, and on the quest to try and do the best I can, have been observing womens' relationships with their adult sons. It seems to me that, in the extended circle of my family and friends, not many adult men have a good relationship with their mother .... not many men "respect" their mothers .... it seems to me that they "tolerate" them. In my own little world of research when I asked men about this, some answers indicated that this is sometimes due to being closeted as a child and not allowed freedom to grow into a man, or because the son felt like he was controlled and manipulated.

Horrified at the prospect of being "tolerated" by my son for the rest of his life, or worse, resented even, but still wanting to provide boundaries and guidelines, I wonder if anyone has either observed a good relationship between mother and son, or indeed have a good relationship between mother and son, and if so, what do you think is the basis for that good relationship?

I must admit I baby my son a lot more than his sister. I tend to treat her as a little friend, but she is very independent anyway whereas ds is more like me, loves cuddling whereas dd can take it or leave it!!!

I am dreading him becoming a teenager more than my daughter too as I think boys tend to be more easy led than girls and get into things like drugs etc...which is a problem where we live!!!

You just have to hope you bring them up the right way and so they choose not to go down that route....I'm waffling now...

Oooh, an interesting thread -- thank you kb!

From where I am at the moment (ds is 6) two things spring to mind:

Firstly, to take your cue from the child. Ds used to be quite shy and clingy when he was little, and we had the 'Oh he'll be a Mummy's boy" thing from grandparents. But I found that trying to talk him into doing stuff he didn't want to was utterly counterproductive, and if I just let him sit on my lap for as long as he wanted, he'd eventually get down in his own time and throw himself into the thick of things with the best of them.

The other point that has crystallised out for me over the past few years is that the main 'problem' of boyness for ds has been to integrate the noisy, shouty, testosterone-driven part of him with the cuddly, sensitive and loving little person that he is. I've tried very hard to show him that it's okay to be sad, it's okay to be gentle and loving with us and his sisters, but it's also okay to race around being a power ranger. And then again, it's okay to be angry and stamp your foot, but it's not okay to express your anger by kicking people or spitting.

We had a very sweet moment a few months ago when dh had gone abroad for a few weeks and then his teacher went back to South Africa for a family reunion. Ds was okay about his Dad going, but lost the plot completely when his teacher went as well. In the end I had to have him in bed with me, as he kept bursting into sobs every five mins. In the morning he woke up (6am) and said "Mummy, I do love Miss X". 'That's nice', I said, blearily. To which he replied, "All my friends say that's stupid, but I really do." You can't ask much more of a little boy than to stand up to his mates to defend his feelings.

My dh has an okay relationship with his mother btw -- I can't stand the old trout, but that's my problem.

QZebra - your mother must be very special then to engender such a good (and from my experience, atypical, reaction from her son

Chandra - yes, have read Raising Boys and found it quite interesting, but it seemed to me to focus more on the father/son relationship - I am going to reread though to see if I get more the second time around

LynneJ - interest point - we are having our second child in November, and I my concerns are the opposite to yours - I worry about having a girl, because my perception is that girls are easily led and subject to peer pressure (but this may be just based on my own life and mistakes)

To update ... in summary so far, in no order of priority (sorry if I've missed any points out):

• allow your son to be independant in appropriate ways, enabling him to figure out things for himself
• build good lines of communication, even if its only about inconsequential things (on the premise that he's more likely then to talk to you about the important things)
• do something together, just the two of you
• accept his differences - from you as well as other people - don't try to change him
• have an equal, respectful partnership with you husband/parter to show your son that men and woman equal, rational beings and also so he learns to respect women
• be open-minded and non-judgmental
• try to be easy going, and don't interfere
• respect his privacy
• never say in his hearing, any generalisations about the uselessness of the male in the domestic and relationship front
• when your son is an adult, treat him as such
• work on having a good, adult relationship with your son's choice of partner

AND

• trust your son
• be a good listener
• talk,talk,talk and be honest
• let him be himself - don't push him to be something else, or into a stereotype
• let him be a boy, but teach him appropriate ways to express anger and emotions

wow - this is really helping me to think through the mum i want to be to my son - thanks all for your contributions - keep them coming .....

KB this is a great thread. DP and I were talking about this at the weekend, cos he's spent a lot of time over the last few years supporting his mum after her H left her, to the point where he's sometimes more of a 'parent' to her than she is to him. She's had a hard time, but I'd hate to find myself in the position of asking that much of my own ds, emotionally, when he's grown up. But maybe I've got an overly rosy idea of how much help we can expect from our parents as adults...

Have you tried the Secret of Happy Children by Stephen Biddulph? Ds is only 8 months old, so a bit early to test it out, but I liked it better than Raising Boys - there's a lot more too it, and it doesn't include cringeworthy ideas like taking your 12 year old ds out to dinner so you can all chat about sex.

i have it on the bedside table, next to "the secret of happy parents" - yet to read either of them, but thanks for the reminder - i was looking for a book for the train this morning, and i should've grabbed that one - it will be next!

I have an excellent, loving relationship with my two sons (29 and 31) they both have long-term girlfriends who I get on famously with.

I don't have an answer as to why we get on so well - I just followed my nose and did what I thought was best - seems to have worked.

My opinion is, if you try to follow a manual - you'll fall flat. Everyone is different and that means different responses to different situations.

I was thinking of starting a similar thread. Very interesting!

I have 2ds. I have to admit would have liked a dd for many of the reasons raised here. If I could guarrantee staying close to my ds then I would happily have 10.

Anyway my thoughts are same as many others. Essentially though I so think the key is the sons partner/wife. Problem is though I think your relationship with her is based largely on hers with her mother which of course you have no influence over. In otherwords hope he is married to an orphan or someone with a poor relationship with her mum!

Most women I know have brilliant relationships with their mothers and most men not so good. Most DIL seem to at best tolerate their MIL. I know I would actually get on better with mine if I got on less well with my own mum.

My brother has a good relationshsip with my mum but its very different. Basically most men don't gossip/chat on the phone or go shopping. Even the best son/mother relationship will be different to a daughter one.

My mum finds it interesting and I have tried to explain to her why I would like a dd. She thinks women with only sons probably have a better relationship as if you have a daughter she will probably take up a lot of your time emotionally.

I am very scared I will be old and alone with sons who don't care while all my friends with daughters are having a great time!

We should be finding women out there who like their MIL and work out why/how this is the case and what we can do about it. Its heartbreaking isn't it to think of your gorgeous ds growing up to tolerate and not respect you?

I know some perfectly nice women who are hated by their DIL. At the toddler group I got o there are a lot of grandmothers. All maternal though. A lot of the women slate their MIL. They can't be all bad as they often have good relationships with their own daughters.

Also I think this is a generational thing. We are the first generation to have a good frend/mother relationship with our mums. It used to be more formal and I think then mother son relationships were better off.

Sorry to go on and on. You can tell this is a subject that I have given an awful lot of though to!!

My main conclusion is that if they choose the wrong woman it does not matter how good a relationship you have you are screwed. In Asian culture this does not seem to be a problem. Sons love and respect their mothers from what I can see. Maybe arranged marriage is the answer then we can choose our DIL for ourselves .

muppety

Interesting thread. I have 2 young boys. Another book suggestion for you: That's my boy by Jenni Murray (of Woman's Hour). Mostly common sense but a reasonable read.

Fascinating question Koala. Don't have time to read all the posts but I do think Mum and sons relationships can be a problem for the sons wives! (And I speak as the mum of 2 little boys). Maybe it's a generational thing but a lot of mothers, including mine and my husband's, tend to bring up boys to expect to be looked after by women, so don't expect them to learn them life skills like cooking, cleaning, ironing, getting on with people . They then complain that men are useless! Well what do you expect? Perhaps its a bit like men in the office/workplace - they don't like to think the opposite sex can do 'their' work as well as they can so they make damn sure they can't!

Whereas women are brought up to do it all - all the domestic stuff and earning a living too. I think the last 30 years have been great for women's development but it's about time we gave men the same rights - and responsibilities.

i will hate my DIL's i just know it. now my eldest son is 15 i can totally see where my MIL comes from. this is a scarey scarey thing.

i think its about recognising certain things:

i do recognise that the love i have for my kids is not reciprocated in the same way. id ont love my mum the way i love my kids never have done.

i recognise that as a parent i am revered by my chldren and i have lots of power to use or misuse and this can carry on into adulthood.

i recognise that they will tell me bad things abotu their relationships but i mustnt judge becuase its easier to complain than it is to say " we are so happy"

i recognise that i will want my own life when they are gone - this will involve the pub and the pool talbe and not babysitting grandchildren

they recognise that too

Superb post as usual, Custardo. I agree with every word.

Janh - backing up what you said - my friend has a lovely relationship with her grown up son - she worked full time since he was a baby, so was very much an equal partnership at home

Hi there
Im researching a new programme for the BBC and Im looking for people to talk to who may have problems with their parents -in-law , or who have difficult parents who have strong ideas about how their grand children should be brought up ... Is this a situation that anyone can identify with? If so , perhaps you could email me : my email address is [email protected]

aren't media requests supposed to go in the, uh, Media Requests section? with the £25 fee?

Custardo, that is a fantastic post (they always are though [smarmy, bumlicking emoticon]).

Thats just my problem then custardo. I would like to be babysitting my grandchildren, but am worried will not get a look in over the maternal grandmother. Thats what seems to happen to everyone I know.

Now I have sons though I recognize how bloody hard it must be to be a MIL with a DIL. Don't think you can win.

my dh had a great relationship with his mother ( who I found difficult at times) she babysat LOADS for us.

Why worry about something that may never happen - be a good mum and you'll reap the rewards.

wordsmith "Maybe it's a generational thing but a lot of mothers, including mine and my husband's, tend to bring up boys to expect to be looked after by women, so don't expect them to learn them life skills like cooking, cleaning, ironing, getting on with people" Aaarggh - women like this I can't understand at all I want to shake them! - I brought my boys up to be self sufficient!

Agree with the aargghhh, JT - but when I try and point this out to my mum she makes comments along the lines of men are simple creatures who can't be expected to look after themselves. Well who made them bleedin' simple FGS!!!! Some of them have even been running the country for hundreds of years with one notable exception (and she f*d it up - personal opinion!), surely the rest of them can iron their own underpants!

i think your right muppety - i am lucky in that i have a girl and 2 boys so the likleyhood of me getting a look in ( whether i want to is another matter) are fairly high.

having said that - my mum isnt maternal and was overly preoccupied with butting in - so didn't get herself involved. so MIL took over ( until favourite son had babies)

see muppety thats another factor - get your sons to only marry the eldest daughters of families of three children. the youngest is invariably the favourite - although the mother will never admit it. that way you get a look in.

Custy, my mother has admitted that her youngest child (not me) was and still is her favourite! And I am the eldest in a family of three.

I found it very hurtful, I must admit, even though I was fully grown with my own family (It was only a couple of years ago.)

I would NEVER say anything like that to a child of mine, however old they are. My youngest brother is lovely, and obviously as he still lives near home and is unmarried my mum still sees him as her baby. I have tried to auction him off on Mumsnet before, but wouldn't inflict my mum on any potential wife of his (she's great but would interfere like crazy. My DH is lucky he's not my DW)

I don't do ironing underpants either

It was a figure of speech. I don't do underpants, or sheets. Or anything that's only mildly creased. Or babygro's and vests and the like. But my MIL did. And socks!!!! Yes - socks!!!!

ha, ha!

tbh (and its only my opinion) I think some women need to be needed - I find it quite sad but not in a sarky way. My mum (80) plays golf with women who have to rush home to do dinner for their sons (40 odd years olds) - bizarre!