Defiant children, HELP!!!!

[knackered76]

I have a 4 yo girl and 3 yo boy. My dd is becoming increasingly defiant. I ask her to do something and not only does she not do it, such as not putting extra things in the shopping trolley, she will deliberately do what I have asked her not to while looking at me. I have tried to ignore it but find it really winds me up and I get so cross so quickly. I hate spending parts of the day feeling so angry with her, especially as she has started school now so I don't have her as much. My ds has learnt to copy her as well, brilliant! Any advice gratefully received

Have you tried wording it differently?

Rather than 'Please put those cornflakes in the trolley' try 'I wonder if someone can find the big box of cornflakes and put them next to the washing powder in the trolley?' etc etc

IME it's not worth going head to head with a 4 year old in the stubborn-ness stakes

I have tried that with some of the more trivial things, such as the shopping, but really struggle when it is something more important, such as not doing something because it could damage her/someone else/something. It these sorts of incidents that really get to me and I don't know how to get around it as they are basic safety rules.

So, apart from getting cross, what sanctions or punishments do you use if she does do what you tell her not to?

Because you need to be firm and let her know that if she does something deliberately after you have told her not to she will face consecuences.

Have you read 'how to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk'? I highly recommend it.

I give her a couple of warnings with what will happen if she continues and then carry them through. Maybe I'm not patient enough but it doesn't seem to have changed her behaviour in the longer term (a few months now). Do I keep going with the warnings and sanctions and try my hardest not to get so wound up and cross or is there another method I can try?

Ok, firs tof all go to amazon and order the book.

Then make sure that the sanctions directly relate to what she is doing wrong, if you can, and deliver warnings calmly but firmly. Always enforce whatever you sanctioned with, always follow through, so she knows you mean buainess.

Pick and choose your battles. Decide what you will let pass and stivk to that, don;t be inconsistant. Don;t ignore something one day but punish her for doing it another day, that will only confuse her.

Maky sure your expectations match what she is actually capable of doing and understanding and you are not expecting too much of her too soon.

See if you can preempt any defiant behaviour, what triggers it? Is there a pattern to it? Is is because she is hungry/tired/hasn't had much attention for a while?

See if you can spot possible triggers and step in and deflect any possible conflict before it happens. Maybe she doesn't want to help with the shopping, maybe she just wants to sit in the trolley talking to you (just an example)

Praise praise praise for good behaviour, remember to littel children any attention is better than no attention, so if she gets your undivided attention by being defiant you need to redress this and give her more positive attention so she doesn't need to get your attention in a negative way.

I've just ordered the book, fingers crossed for inspiration and dollop of patience! Thank you

Great! I promise it will help!!!

Pull her pants down and smack her bare bottom in front of everyone in the supermarket (after warning her that this is what unrepentant cheeky children get).

grumpy ffs ! this is 2010 not 1910 ! how would you like someone to pull your pants down and smack your bare bottom in front of everyone in the supermarket. since when was public humiliation and violence a good parenting choice.
, you have kids? expect them to shove you in an old folks home and leave you there in years too come.

I think for the time being you should concentrate on dealing with each situation rather than expecting a reformed character. She is 4, she will be obstinate until she grows out of it. You just make sure you get your way where it matters. IF necessary, by gentle manhandling. The fact that you may need to stick with a programme for a year or two doesn't mean it's wrong.

It's an age thing. When dd1 was doing this we used to have 'the going somewhere' talks. Where I would sit her down and explain exactly what was expected of her and why. And what would happen if she did/didn't follow the rules i.e. watching a film with popcorn that night vs going to bed early. You must always follow through.

For boring things like shopping I'd give her a 'job' to do, like list reader, adder upper (with a calculator), fetcher etc. It keeps them occupied and amused so less likely to play up. Don't forget while grocery shopping may just be tedious to you, to a four year old it is tedious, pointless and lasts forever.