Concern about a child - what should I do?

[Solo2]

Within another thread, I posted my concern about witnessing what looked like an incident of unreasonable aggression towards a child. No response to that and still worrying about whether or not I should do anything?

The other night, when returning from a school Xmas play, we drove passed a car that was pulled up on the verge of a v v busy road, near the traffic lights/ junction - so not in a safe place. We saw the mum out of the car with the little boy (aged 8) and she appeared to be hitting him several times and pulling him, as he pulled away.

I felt quite shocked, as did my children who also witnessed it but we couldn't be sure exactly what was happening and I may have misinterpreted the scene.

I'm also aware that there's probably not one of us here who hasn't 'lost it' with our children at times - but surely when they were a lot younger? What's concerning me is that we used to mix with the family, when her children and mine were a lot younger. I withdrew from contact because of several reasons - one being that her son bullied one of my children and she didn't seem concerned about this.

There was also an incident where the dad returned home from work oneday and almost the first thing he did was whack his son's hand really really hard, just because the little boy (who would have been only about 3 at the time) was overexcited to see his dad.

The mum had v v high expectations of her son and he was a v bright child. However, in recent years, he's seemed sad and pale and he's having a lot of problems at school with rudeness and aggression and is now ostracised by lots of the children.

Putting all of this together, the scene we witnessed the other night feels more worrying than just a one-off-'mum lost it-it'll never happen again'- incident. the fact that it was so public makes me wonder what goes on behind closed doors.

It was also the incongruity of the scene, as we were all returning from having watched our children in a v moving Xmas play and I was feeling all loving and gooey-hearted about my own children. To see another parent suddenly so angry with her DS felt rather weird and out of place with the atmosphere we'd just come from.

On the other hand, if this little boy has problems, then maybe it's just getting too much for the parents and to interfere or intervene or say anything at all will just add to the family's stress. It's also possible that I misinterpreted what I saw and instead, the mum was pulling the child back to the car, if he'd jumped out or something, rather than hitting him.

Our paths rarely cross, so I can't easily and informally say anything to the mum. I know he's getting help from the school for behavioural problems anyway.

Should I just keep an eye on things and hope all is well? Should I do anything at all and is there anything I can do that's much much less intrusive than informing anyone official?

I saw your post and just wondering what you think you could do all this time later?

Yes, it's probably too late now to do anything at all and perhaps best just to watch for anything further of concern. I'm reluctant to talk to the school, as I don't want to 'make trouble' for the family/ the parents, especially if the school is already aware of behavioural problems with the child and trying to help at school.

I suppose it's that wider ethical question, really of - what do you do if you see something that looks like unreasonable aggression towards a child and yet you can't be sure? Do you walk away? Do you intervene?

The best scenario would have bene to casually bring it up with the mum the next day - but I never ever see her. So that's not going to happen.

My worst fear - which may be completely unfounded of course - is that the child is beeing aggressed at home all the time - hence the difficulties at school - and no one knows the full extent of it and he'll grow up harmed/ damaged.

On the other hand, the parents may be doing an excellent job but really struggling with a difficult child and the last thing they'd need is someone interfering or implying something....

Tricky one really....Not sure what to do...

If you honestly have cause for concern then i think you should speak to someone. Not sure exactly who - perhaps local social services? They will be better trained to look for signs and at least then you know you have done your bit. If they dont find anything then great, but if they do they will be in a position to help the family through their problems. Dont believe all the stories you read in the press about social services turning up and whisking away children into care - they do assessments and only after careful consideration take such measures (i'm not saying for a second that it would neccessarily come to anything like that!).

Solo

I went to the dh's friends house the other day and was very uncomfortable with the way the dad treated his kids to the point that my ds (much younger than theirs) was almost in tears - it was constant very sharp ear pulling and hair pulling by the father - there was one major head slapping as his ds was losing at cards and the dad thought he was 'stupid'.

It does highlight how far you can intervene as my dh and his friend are non nationals and I've been to their home town in the EU many a time and that's how boys are treated from little ones to make them into 'men'. Hasten to add my dh would never lay a finger on my ds as he knows this is not the right way to communicate with ds.

BUT - the mum (also from the same small town) was ashamed and I did wonder whether if the kids have friends around for dinner what an earth they'd report to parents when they got home and any action from the parents.

I was offended by the arrogance of the father thinking that was OK and assuming that's what we do at home. I've told dh that I will not go to their house again and in future any contact involving my ds has to be in our home where he has never laid a finger on his kids.

Perhaps the school also know. I think you're thinking ss - and if you were to call you'd have no idea the chain of events thi could lead to - so I'd suggest if you are really concerned the school is the first place to approach so they can monitor and take a view (but from what you say they probably are keeping an eye already).

So, so hard.

I hate the thought of kids suffering but we have no control of the outcomes involving the authorities.

its not too late to report this to social work dept. even if details sketchy they may already have info on this family and just need a bit more to act.
we all have a duty as a society to protect the vulnerable. I don't mean intervening at the tine if you feel it would put you or your family at risk,but reporting to social work is a 'safe' option, the mum will never know it was you.

if this happened in public just think what could be happening behind closed doors

I am a teacher and occaisionally we do get incidents reported to us by parents of other children at the school. In my experience this often helps the person who has witnessed something that made them uncomfortable. Schools have child protection/safeguarding systems in place and any information passed to them will be dealt with confidentially and sensitively. Every school must have a child protection officer (often the head teacher) and should you wish to make a statement it should be to that person. Do bear in mind however, all they will be able to do is listen to you. They will not be able to comment or give you any information. Although it is difficult, we do all have a responsibility to ensure that children are protected. The advice that we are given is to report exactly what has been witnessed, without emotion. It is not our place to judge, only to pass the information on. I hope this helps.

Mummysleepy has made a valid point - what you witnessed could be a piece of the jigsaw that the ss/child protection people are waiting for to fit everything together. Could you call the NSPCC?

Have you considered approaching the mum and telling her what you saw? She may have concerns and you , in seeing it, may scare her into doing something.
Are you accusing her or abuse or neglect ? Because it has to be either or both of those things to warrant a ss referal.

Thanks for all the thoughts on this....still not sure what's the best thing if anything to do and of course school is closed now. Still not sure if what I saw was simply an exhausted, frustrated mum, worried about her son - who has problems with behaviour at school - or the root cause of his behaviour problems.

One of my DCs did ask the little boy himself, before the end of term, what had happened that night we saw him and his mother by their car. My DC told me the boy said he'd had a fight with/ hit his little sister - but that was all he said...So maybe the mum was simply disciplining him for hitting the younger sister and was v angry that he'd aggressed the younger child...

Another mum - who I haven't told what I saw, told me that she (like us) had stopped socialising with the family because the little boy constantly hit her children - completely unprovoked...

So maybe I'm building up a picture of a little boy with behavioural problems, who has been ostracised by other families/ children (my children say he has no friends at school)- and whose parents are at their wits end as to what to do and really care about him but go over the top a bit in their response to disciplining him because of the social embarassment of having an aggressive child.....On the other hand, maybe the parents discipline towards him is v harsh and has actually started his problems or added to ones he's already got.

Very averse to contacting the NSPCC (this is a v 'nice', professional/ successful middle-class family). May try to have an informal chat with the mum herself next term or the Pastoral Care teacher at the school. The little boy is already getting special help from the school for his misbehaviour - and is also super-bright academically....so that might be another factor in all this, as some gifted children have social/behavioural problems - though the school is for that kind of child anyway and he's surrounded by other bright children.

From reading your 1st post I think it's worth telling someone in the school about it - you've obviously been thinking about this for some time.

It seems (from your last post) as though the only reason you don't want to do this is because the family is nice, professional/ successful middle-class, which doesn't really make sense to me,.

think you should speak to NSPCC as school is out for hols now and school holidays can be stressful just because he has behaviourial issues and they are middle class means nothing if you are worried enough to post here for advice you should speak to someone who can do something

I used to practice child protection social work , but gave up 7 years ago. however i can say that the most discreet, helpful thing to do in this type of situation,is to have a quiet chat with the school. This way, if there are any problems, they can be dealt with very sensitively at that level. Calling the NSPCC, in my view, is not the best way -[ certainly, i never came across them myself during 3 year sof social work, they are, i think, more attuned to family centres and that sort of thing, rather than being involved in first stage child protection enquiries. The school really is best placed to deal at this level, they will know the parents well and the child too. good luck.

ps-[ if,a s it sounds, this is a long running problem, it makes no difference whether you dicuss it with the school now or in 2 weeks.

I have called social services about something less extreme than this (after asking advice on here). If you know this sort of thing is going on you should let someone know, and I don't think it's too late. SS will make a decision about what to do and whether they should visit. Also true that others may have contacted them previously and it may help them build up a picture.

Hitting a child repeatedly like that is absolutely not on even as a one-off IMO.

FFS, speak to the parents!

running off to SS isn't very supportive. The parents sound awful, but they need support from the community around them. SS will be quick to judge, but won't offer much in terms of day-to-day practical support.

Very averse to contacting the NSPCC (this is a v 'nice', professional/ successful middle-class family).

That statement makes my blood run cold. FFS contact social services and report what you just told us.... they may be able to support the family and make things better. Just because they
are nice and middle class does NOT MEAN THEY CANNOT BE ABUSIVE.

You have a duty towards this boy because of what you witnessed... how would you feelif you found out he had been beaten to death tomorrow??

Act woman!!

In my case Highlander I spoke to SS and as well as explaining what I was worried about, I expressed my concern about whether it really was serious enough and whether I was "dobbing" someone when it wasn't necessary. They said it is not just about them going round and grabbing the kids - they may visit, offer support, etc. SS are not perfect but the negative cases we hear about on the news are the exceptions.

Remember that children growing up with bullying and abuse also need support and for people around them to take notice and step in if necessary.

Oh dear! I didn't meant to provoke anyone by describing this family as professional middle-class or suggest that abuse can't happen in any family no matter what the background. What I was trying to get at was the devastating consequences that could happen if I wrongly got SS involved, given that the family would find any SS intrusion completely invasive and would never have had anything like that happen before.

The husband is an eminent professional and the mum is also a locally known professional (won't say what fields of employment) and even a hint of SS involvement would ruin their lives. I'm also not sure if I actually saw a lot of hitting going on or quite what, that night. I saw the child pulling away and the mother grabbing him and raising her arm and it might have either been hitting or grabbing at him more and it could simply be that she was afraid he'd run onto the road.

It's cos so much is unknown that I'm unclear what to do. If I'd definitely seen and could be sure I'd seen full-blown abuse, I'd feel a lot better about speaking to someone outside the family.

The best case scenario for me would be to talk to the mother. I just don't see her hardly ever. I used to socialise with her regularly from when the children were babies up to about age 4. I'm aware that I have v subjective feelings about her that might have clouded my judgement of what I saw.

Not only was her husband aggressive - I felt- towards the little boy but the mum was always ensuring that the boy was way way ahead of my children in everything, oushing uim on to succeed all the time. I always felt inadequate around her. Her son was reading before mine could even get his letters right and writing his name before mine could hold a pencil properly.

Perhaps the worst thing was when one of my sons was being assessed for Asperger's (he fails to reach the criteria for this but has many of the traits) and the mum told me (in the nicest possible way!!) she didn't want her son to see my son's behaviour in case he started to copy it - eg finding it hard to share toys etc at age 3. I felt v hurt and angry....and as it turns out, it's her son now who have behavioural problems, not mine.

I stopped seeing her around that time but am aware I hold a lot of negative feelings for her that may sway my objectivity. Since the family has come back into our lives peripherally (the children are now at the same school), I've learned a lot more about her son - having assumed for so long that he's a young genius. I've learned that he's ostracised by other families for aggressive behaviours and is often in trouble at school and having special help for the behaviour. I've learned that other families don't consider him spectacularly bright, as the mum had led me to believe. I've wondered if he in fact has some ASD traits or challenging behaviours associated sometimes - but not always - with gifted children.

All this makes me be v v cautious about what to do. I feel compassion and some guilt about my previous feelings and yet I also feel some concern for the child.

I think, I might first try to manufacture a spontaneous meeting with the mum. Every time I've come across her in the last year, she's always rushed off with an excuse, which I've assumed was because she feels embarassed that her son now has a reputation for being a problem child and that doesn't fit with the picture she tried to give me in his first 4 years.

Then, I also think I'll try to manufacture a conversation with the Pastoral care teacher, who is also one of my children's class teachers and see if I can voice my fears in a 'searching and wondering' way rather than a straight accusation.

IF the little boy is being treated aggressively at home, then what the parents most need is support to manage his behaviour more skillfully. It's not the same as say a child who is being beaten and starved...at least I have no reason to believe it is. He just looks pale and unhappy and seems to get a kick out of being rude to adults and aggressive to children....which I suppose either implies he has real problems going on that may be inborn - or that he's learning this from his parents...

Thank you again for everyone's input.

I think you are deluding yourself and letting the boy down enourmously. SS are confidential and are there to protect children and support parents. I think you are wrong. Poor poor boy.