If your child aged 4.5 continually refused to

[WinkyWinkola]

get dressed when you asked him to and instead flew into a thumping rage about it every single time, would you think it excessive to drive him to school in his pyjamas or even naked, take him into his classroom and leave him and his school uniform there with his teacher ? Would that just be too humiliating and emasculating?

What would you suggest I do when he deliberately urinates on the sofa because I would not let him watch television until he'd got dressed?

He's just urinated on his bed because I put him in his room to calm down after another rage about my asking him very coolly to get dressed this morning.

My HV thinks he needs psych assessment because his behaviour is extremely controlling and he causes constant conflict in our house. Whatever we do, he rages and refuses to cooperate.

It does seem extreme.
Usually a threat of going to school in his pyjamas works here.
Has your HV made a referral?

I'm sorry, but I think your HV is right. You need some expert support to deal with this. I remember other threads of yours - you've had a very rough time with him (hope I'm not confusing you with someone), but he's still little and you can learn good techniques with the right help. Get the assessment and then see where you need to go from there.

Re the getting dressed in the morning - I have seen a mother bring her DS to school in his pyjamas before - all the other parents looked on in total admiration. I don't think it's humiliating. It's a consequence of his actions. But not naked.

I have a four and a half year old. We have the same battle every morning.

He is slow but does eventually do it with about a million reminders.

I think urinating to get his own way is just awful. Is there no bribery that will work?

You have probably exhausted all routes i expect. Get the referral.

I would have no qualms about taking him in to school in his pyjammas though. Try it!

I would take him to school in his PJs. A classmate of ds's arrived in his PJs in reception and was sent to the head. He didn't do it again! It also worked a treat on ds as he knew what would happen if he didn't get dressed for school.

Sounds like you do need a referral though for his behavioural problems.

The refusing to get dressed is probably quite a common problem that in most cases would be resolved by the starting to leave the house with child in pyjamas and not have to go the whole way to school with them like that (ie. they would realise that you mean business and probably beg to get dressed by the time you get to the car/garden gate).

The deliberate urinating sounds much more of an issue that IMO I would accept outside help for.

Are you reluctant for the psych assessment? If so, whats holding you back?

I've threatened to take him to school in his pyjamas. That doesn't work anymore because I think he thinks I won't do it. I have to physically dress him piece by piece with him biting at the vest, jumper, thumping the bed in rage etc.

Constant conflict over daily routines is just wearing me down. No reasoning/carrot/stick approach seems to work. I think the HV is worried because I now have a new baby and thinks it could all have a seriously negative effect.

I've posted lots on here, read lots on mnetters recommendations and well, I'm going to go to the gp and start the assessment ball rolling. I was scared to do that in case he was labelled from a young age as a 'problem child' for just the terrible twos but this has gone on far too long (2.5 years) and it affects our whole family life. I dread what they'll tell me though in case it's something serious. What, I can't think.

I just want him to be happy. I thought most kids looked to please their parents and enjoyed getting praise and rewards for being cooperative and well, just being. He seems to seek out ways to get angry.

If he thinks you won't do it, that's because you haven't done it yet. On Monday morning, tell him if he's not dressed by whenever then he will be going in his pyjamas - and do it. Get a bit of control back.

Good luck with the referral - it is the right thing to do. Whatever they tell you, I think it'll help knowing exactly what you're up against and having other people involved who can give you coping mechanisms.

Agree that he thinks you won't do it because you haven't done it yet. Time to change that IMO.

What's his behavior like at school?

The getting dressed thing is a comon theme here but poor oyu about the weeing.
I hope you get some help

Agree with Hassled get some authority/control back.

I would definately take mine in their pjs.

Getting dressed is one of the final hurdles in our house with a 4.5 year old. Although I know he can do it as does it at school PE and swimming, so I empathise.

But I do thinking the weeing is quite extreme. I really hope that you find some help in a psych assessment. It may not be huge things, but outside help can be good.

Perfect at school of course.

Monday he's going in his pyjamas if necessary and I'm making an appointment.

Agree with all the above but also I would say pre-warn the school too.
I wouldn't like to be a teacher greeted with that with no prior knowledge on a busy school morning and being bascially dumped with it all!

Good luck with the assessment, urinating to get your own way is very extreme.

next time him unrinates somewhere on purpose like that make him clear it up, consequence of actions and all that.

But do they really get consequences at that age? I'm starting to wonder because today he went utterly bananas in a toy shop over his wanting a totally inappropriate toy and our saying no to it.

He was raging, kicking, biting, screaming all the way back to the car when we said he couldn't have any toy as a result of his bad behaviour. That was at 2.30pm today.

He has only just calmed down and stopped asking to go back to the toy shop for a toy now, two hours later, even though we've spent ages, calmly explaining why he wouldn't be getting a toy now.

Exhausted. I just wanted to run away from him today and just have one day without conflict and rage. I wanted to tell DH to leave with him, find a flat and let me and my other two dcs live in peace. I'm just worn down by it all.

Yes they do understand consequences but they have to be "natural consequences" and follow on directly after the behaviour IYSWIM.

So cleaning up a peed on sofa afterwards.

Going to school in pjs if you don't get dressed.

I always think when they behave themselves at school all day you do get the back lash at home I'm afraid.

Surely not getting the toy isn't actually to do with his behaviour it was because it was age unappropriate and you had said no, the behaviour has no consequence as to whether or not he got the toy.

What would he say if you asked him why do you get so angry?

Might be not be right way to go, but it could be interesting to hear his response. Or why don't you listen to mummy and daddy? Etc

Actually this is why I would see the psych because they will know the best questions to ask. I would prefer this to battling further with him.

I was going to say he could just be tantruming so badly because perhaps you normally cave in so he thinks if he persists long enough he will get his own way.

I would ask for a referral but in the meantime try a very much consequences approach and note how he reacts it will probably give insight into whether their is a problem or whether he just has a strong personality to get his own way.

Some children are just naturally far more compliant than others.

Thanks for listening and your kind words of advice.

We've laid it on thick with him. Asking him, "Why do you make mummy and daddy sad by shouting and screaming?" He says he doesn't know why. It's like a total loss of any control whatsoever.

He's been like this since he was 22 months old. I've removed him from countless sessions like music and mini gym groups and play dates because of his hysterics and anger.

I don't think I've caved in - I've removed toys, rewarded good behaviour, tried to talk to him about the issues and ignored him when he can't or won't be calmed down. Maybe I've not been consistent enough.

Today he kept asking to go back to the toy shop to get a toy that was "right for him" instead. We had been prepared to get him a toy in the first place but since he'd kicked off, he got nothing.

It's like a tyranny of rages every day. I almost hope they find something specific that is a problem because it's worn both me and DH down that we don't see how we can face another 14+ years of this. I knew parenthood would be graft but this is something else!

Thanks again for listening. I know I've posted a lot on this but sometimes I just feel so desperate about him.

Certainly worth getting a referral if it's been going on for this long. It would also be worth trying to write down exactly what happened as soon as possible after it happening to see if that helps the specialist pick out what the issue is.

Does it make any difference if you explain what is going to happen whilst you are out?

Just think it's odd that there are no issues at school, have you spoken to them about how he is at home? Perhaps he manages better at school because it's much more predictable? Does he struggle with change/uncertainty for example. Is the getting dressed thing about him not wanting to move onto the next thing IYSWIM

Winky one thing that comes through all your posts with your ds is how much you do care and are trying to resolve issues.

So I really hope the next stage with outside help is what is needed. It may be linked to such good behaviour at school, all that sort of thing.

Well, I've been to the G.P. and she's going to write a letter of referral.

Except the sh*t has really hit the fan now.

DS has hysterics over something every morning usually before 6am.

Today he started shouting and screaming over the fact that his little sister had got into bed first and was cuddling the baby. He wanted to cuddle the baby but we said he had to wait his turn. He went mental about that and was put in his room by H to calm down. This is what we do now instead of trying to engage with him about the problem as it doesn't work.

H was rough with him so I told him not to be so rough. DS calmed down and came out into our room again. But then he started shouting and screaming again. I don't remember what over - broken banana? Anyway, H got him by the hair and started propelling him towards the door. It was more pushing than pulling.

I yelled at H to stop. He wouldn't so I leapt out of bed and got his hand off DS and got between them and made to usher DS out of our room and into his so he could i. calm down and ii. not see an altercation between his parents.

But then H shoved me from behind. Quite hard. I couldn't believe it. I turned and shouted at him, " Don't you dare. I'll have you!" H then pushed past me and put DS into his room. I tried to stop him touching DS and there was a tangle but of course I couldn't stop H. He didn't hurt DS he just put him in his room.

H doesn't see that he's done anything wrong. At all. I've asked him to leave and told him I don't know when I think he should come back. He then went to DS and told him that he has to leave and that it's all DS's fault that his family is breaking up because of his constant shouting and screaming.

I know the strain on all of us is too much but I can't let H think this kind of behaviour is acceptable either. Am I over reacting? I just don't know what to do. If I don't take action, H will think it's ok to behave like this.