Is it easier to let your kids play outside all night rather than get them in bed at a reasonable time?

[ssd]

I'm asking as after being up since 6.20am with my ds2, ds1 got up at 7, I'm trying to get them in the bath and into bed. Usually they're in the bath about 7, tonight it's later as my dh and I wanted to chat without constant questions/demands so we let them play out the back till about 7.45.

But as usual there's kids out playing while I'm trying to get my 2 in bed and it makes it really hard for me. The kids are aged from 4 till about 6 and the parents don't seem to give a damn, they'll be out there till 9 at the earliest, maybe 9.45.

Am I a looney trying to make sure my 2 get a decent sleep and my dh and I have some adult time, or should I just let them play away outside crossing the road and out of sight till they eventually come home?

My 2 are 4 and 7 years old and the 7 year old can't understand how kids younger than him are allowed out till 9 or 10 and allowed to play way out of sight.

Drives me nuts.

nooka, thanks for the support!!

wish we could move ds to the back, but ds2 is already in there and there's nowhere else to move him to.

I think it's quite nice to live where the kids play outside and this time of year it's light, it's warm and parents are outside too...at least it's play and it's good for the kids to mix with different age groups. In the town centre it's worse to have drunks etc in the middle of the night or fights outside, or even long heart to hearts about who is finishing with whom at three in the morning...

Is ds2 also a light sleeper? My two are quite different about going to sleep - dd has to have music, whilst ds must have it quiet (difficult as they share a bedroom!). I know that some people swear by story tapes (distraction whilst you drift off?) I guess the other thing is how long it's noisy outside, and whether it would be better to have a later bedtime for your 7yr old if it means he goes to sleep faster? An alternative is to try and persuade them to get up later. My sister used a bunny rabbit alarm clock to persuade her younger one to stay quietly in his room until the alarm went off (bunny rabbit's ears went up)

Most children (like most adults) need fewer hours of sleep in summer. The body adjusts to longer days or something.

I let my kids play late in the garden on Friday and Saturday nights in this weather. But the deal is that if they stay up past 8PM, they have to have an afternoon nap the next day to catch up. So now they understand the concept of needing sleep and also that school days are different from weekends. I don't think it does them any harm to have a break from their routines in Summer, it's part of the joy of the extremely short summer we have in this country. It doesn't seem to adversely affect them, and I get to have 2 hours to myself on Saturday and Sunday afternoon!

Willow, I am an expert on getting my kids ready for school. They have made their own morning 'radio' show - they have one song to wake up, one song for the toilet, four songs for breakfast, two songs for washing and three songs for getting dressed. Breakfast menus are decided the night before. We are out of the house at 9:10 on the dot and walk to school in less than ten minutes to be in their lines by 9:20. Very rarely any fuss and I don't have to shout because they do it themselves on the tape!

Ssd sorry. I wasn't very sympathetic before. Have you tried story tapes? They might be a nice, predictable background noise.

I was thinking about this last night. The problem is that the noise isn't "consistant" IYKWIM. It's normally really quite round here, but when the kids are out one of them in particular can't talk or play without shrieking and it's the sudden shreiks that wake him up or keep him awake. This girl lives 2 doors away so I can't move her, she lives here. Anyway there's nowhere else for the kids to play except for the patch or grass outside ds1's room.

So he can't "get used to it" as it's only on dry evenings she's out and as I said she shouts at the other kids or shreiks and as it's right outside his room it keeps him awake. I'd prefer noise like traffic or something that's always there and then he would get used to it.

Th bunny rabbit clock is a good idea for ds2 - do you know where I could get one? Ds2 wakes between 5.30-6 and it's a fight to keep him in bed quietly and not wake up ds2 who's a light sleeper anyway.

I'm beginning to pray for rain in the evenings, how mad is that? Then this girl would be shreiking in her own house and not outside mine

ssd I'm with you

I bloody hate unpredictable noise, I too am a light sleeper and the slightest thing wakes me up. So many people are good sleepers, although they can try to understand, I don't think they understand how upsetting it is!

The three houses next to us all have children between 3-6 years. There are about 8 of them. They play in each others' gardens all evening. Unfortunately, the best play equipment is in our neighbours' house, and they have positioned it right against our fence. SO we basically have all the neighbours kids playing on the other side of our fence. It's no doubt a huge bonus for their mothers, who get a break from them, but they are not my kids, and I have to put up with their screaming all evening.

This disturbs sleep, mealtimes, you name it. Last night we were eating supper on the patio after my dh came back from work, and all the kids were bouncing on the trampoline so they could see over the fence at what we were doing. It's kind of intrusive, and so is the noise.

We have an old woman on the other side who shouts her dog at 2am and sits in the garden all night smoking with her unemployed son. They don't have to get up for work in the morning, so they just sit there smoking and talking into the small hours.

The point is, we are always considerate of the neighbours, we don't make anything like this amount of noise. Perhaps the answer is to be more selfish, perhaps I should let the baby scream the house down outside when they are having a quiet barbeque with friends? Play really loud music after their children have gone to bed?

I don't think I could bring myself to be so selfish though

forgot to say, I find that havng the fan on helps, as the noise is consistent, like a humming. It doesn't necessarily drown out the screaming from outside but I think it provides a differnt focus, and the consistency is what helps

mogwai, a fan sounds like a good idea. Do you mean a free standing fan or a ceiling one?

Fortunayely we don't need a fan to keep cool cos we live in Scotland!! But if anything helped ds to go to sleep I'd use it.

Ds is a light sleeper too and as you said it's really hard to get used to sudden noise if it's close by. I was getting upset last night at a lot of the comments I was getting, it was as if I didn't want kids to play outside and I was being miserable, which is rubbish. I just want my child to get a decent sleep and not be disturbed when he's trying to fall asleep.

Nerdgirl - oh, ok you have a 9.20 start - we have to be there for 8.45 so was wondering how on earth you managed!

ssd

We just have a freestanding one, not a tower one. It makes a lovely hum and I think I've been sleeping better since the heat has required me to use it, IYSWIM. It's a bit like being on a plane or a bus, you fall asleep with the humming.

Sorry you were feeling "got at" last night. I think your feelings, like mine, stem from the upset of broken sleep. I've suffered with it for years. I used to sleep in earplugs when we lived in a flat, people were coming and going all night long. But it's just not comfy to wear earplugs, and your poor child should just be able to get some kip!! I hate it when people suggest I should get earplugs - can't they be more considerate?????

We're a sorry pair, aren't we??!!

Hi again ssd,
Sorry that you're still suffering! I can only sleep in complete silence, and total darkness, so I am in complete sympathy with your ds. This is not great, and as a kid I was known as sleeping through anything! I do have some favourite things to help with sleeping, mostly around relaxing music.

I'll ask my sister about the rabbit clock, not sure where she got it from. Have you talked to your little one about staying in his room? I tried giving my two some special morning toys to play with on holiday when my early rising dh wasn't around, and it worked quite well (I'm also a really bad morning person!)

The other thing I wondered was whether you put your two to bed at the same time? For some reason my ds goes to sleep much quicker if he goes to bed a little later that dd - even if she is still awake when he goes to bed. Also it's a bit of a privledge of being older, and may help if he feels a bit resentful of the kids playing out.O You could also try talking to your ds about what he thinks might help, as it might be that he has some good ideas.

Otherwise anything that's "white noise" like the fan will help, as it gives a sort of "foreground" noise that provides reassurance if the shouting is disturbing him, it may help him not quite wake up properly. (I sometimes hear noise, and before I'm quite awake I've actually got out of bed! This makes it harder to re-settle)

Anyway. Good luck - and aren't there thunderstorms due?

Hi nooka and mogwai, thanks for your replies.

Last night the kids outside were noisy as usual, so we let both ds's stay up later. They were playing and having a great time. They went to bed at 9, really late for a school night for us. The kids outside usually go in about 9.20 so we thought ds1 wouldn't be too disturbed. So they both went to sleep, but then ds1 got up at 10 to use to loo. Anyway both were up this morning ds1 at 7.20 and ds2 at 6.30. So the late night doesn't mean a later sleep.

Both my dh and I are knackered, ds2 is also up twice in the night.

I could just cry with it all, I don't see any improvement soon, why won't my kids sleep later if they have a late night?

Bad luck! I don't think that children sleep like adults do at all. They don't seem to do catch up sleep in the same way that we would like to!

I think that small children are just programmed to wake up to particular patterns. Does your little one wake up later in winter? If it's the light coming in you could try lining his curtains (my children's curtains have blackout linings, left from the time when it was our room).

The other thing you could do is just have your elder son stay up a bit later. He may be happy to do some quiet activity that would give you and your dh some down time. If your ds2 is the earlier waker he probably needs to go to bed earlier anyway (isn't it 11 hours that they are supposed to have at that sort of age?)

Hope you have a better night tonight!

Thanks nooka. Last night we let ds1 stay up later than ds2 and he did stay in bed later this morning. Ds2 got about 10 hours sleep, he never makes it to 11!

We'll see how it goes, but thanks for your concern!

We have very noisy neighbours who have 5 children ranging from 10 to about 18 and they are always in the garden. BUT my two can now sleep through anything because of this. Persevere (sp??!!) and they will get used to the noise.

I shut the windows and put the fan on.

We also live on a main road so when they were little and in our room, they had police/ambulance/fire sirons (sp??) to deal with as well.

Don't see how I can tell them to stop having a barbie as my darlings need some shut eye.

Sorry for spelling errors, too hot today.

xx

my dh wanted to mow the lawn at 9pm last night.

I told him he couldn't cos I could see the curtains were closed nextdoor - the kids had gone to bed.

I am a fool. Why do I bother being considerate???

my dh wanted to mow the lawn at 9pm last night.

I told him he couldn't cos I could see the curtains were closed nextdoor - the kids had gone to bed.

I am a fool. Why do I bother being considerate???

agree that keeping up late doesn;t help them sleep in. if ds1 is kept up too late then he goes hyper, can't get to sleep and wakes up the same time the next morning.

I agree with oliveoil- being able to sleep throough noise is a good skill. ds3 sleeps very well through the noise of his brothers shouting, and ds2 will sleep through ds1 turning on his light, climbing into bed with him and shriiekng in his ear- he's used to it.

It is a problem if the kids want to be like their friends and allowed up. Maybe you could introduce a compromise- "as its light you can stay up 1/2 an hour later, but then straight to bed- don't care what they do you live in this house and that's the rules" type thing.

hi ssd
I know where your coming from with the noise from your childrens neighbours. I was in the same situation nearly 3 years ago when I lived at my old house. That was a terrace and we had a passageway that ran down the side wall of our front room and the house next door which was access to all the back gardens in the terrace. Now the local kids that lived along the street were up and down this passage constantly until about9 ish at night and the noise was absolutely awful. They would bang the gate repeatedly against our wall which made an extremely loud thud and would run screaming up and down over and over again. My son slept above the passageway and would be repeatedly woken several times and he used to scream and shake every time this happen pluss dd was just born and she wasn't too keen either (we couldn't swop bedrooms either cos his was the smallest and we had to saw his bed in half to get it in, it was that tiny)In the end I really saw my arse and threatened them with 'action' if they even breathed down the passage. That did stop thank god and it was much easier.. they went to play in thier garden two doors down wheich was far better. Then the problem went to the front of the house just before we moved and we would get screaming kids right outside the front windows and football banging off the house until 11 pm.. kids of all ages.
Then we moved and oh god we had peace! Now yes there are kids that play utside on the little green in front of the house, they play footie, chase each other and shout a bit but its normal noise.. I've never shouted at them yet lol, No more inane screaming!!

I think those who have been a little judgemental perhaps have never lived in a terracestreet where the noise is so in your face an you can't escape it. I live in a semi now with more space and a bigger garden and the difference is huge.

oops meant neighbours children

by the way ssd, I'm glad you are finally getting some support from this thread!

Hope some of the ideas are a bit useful

SSD, I completely agree with you, children need their sleep, in all of those "Little Angels" style programmes lack of sleep is one of the main causes of children's bad behaviour.

Message withdrawn

Thanks for the replies!

I wish ds1 could sleep with noise going on but he can't. It's too "sudden" eg. the yelling or shreiking all of a sudden, not constantly (well not all the time!). I'm a bit like that, the slightest thing wakes me up too. This is a really nice street to live in but the houses are all crammed together and crammed opposite each other with no space except the patch of grass directly under his bedroom. The point about not much space does make sense sheepgomeek. I hadn't thought about that when I got a lot of negative replies. I love seeing kids playing outside in the fresh air, maybe I came across at the beginning as someone who didn't. Anyway, thanks for all replies again!

ssd x x