Can anyone tell me if it's against the law ...

[Ghouleez]

to leave your baby in the car whilst you pop into the shop.

If my DS has fallen asleep in the car before I get to the shop then I'm damned if I'm going to wake him up so he can cry and do his ironing board impression whilst I struggle to lever him into a cold trolley seat.

If he has gone to sleep I sometimes do a big shop as I know roughly how long he sleeps for and that he doesn't cry when he wakes up.

Is this 'allowed' though?

I know Child minders are not allowed to leave their mindees in a car alone but that I understand.

I agree with leaving the child in a car at the petrol station, as you can see the car at all times, but a big shop where you cannot see the car or the baby inside is frankly just dumb.

If you're on the motorway and you need petrol and there's a massive queue then you don't really have much of a choice. I'd rather leave it but I'm not always organised enough to get petrol whenever I pass a petrol station with no one at it. I try and avoid it, sure.

Marioandluigi - my parents used to leave us in the car when they went into the pub! Not for very long - probably only 1/2 an hour but god it seemed like hours. We never got out though bizarrely

But if you could see there was a massive queue, you weigh it up. You dont have to automatically leave the child in teh car alone just because you would if it were a very short queue.

hercules, it's a judgement call. Usually, in this situation, I have my 6 year old (responsible, and I know I can trust him) with the toddler. I know that it would be safer to keep them in the car than trying to hold toddler (who I wouldn't trust unbridled in an area with moving vehicles) for 10 minutes. I really don't think I'm wrong (and sorry, you won't convince me). It is never more than 10 minutes (most often less than 10 but more than 5).

My judgement call, and I am normally thought of as a person with very sound judgement.

Ah, you see, you never mentioned you had a six year old in the car at the same time. You made out your 22 month old was completely alone.

sorry for the confusion. He is alone for the school drop off on the Fridays when I take the friend (about once a month) - again, across the street and for less than 10 minutes.

Caveat on this: usually another mum keeps an eye on the car during the time.

Okay. If you'd said all that, I wouldnt have said any of the stuff I did.

Someone told me a story (not sure whether it's true) about a woman who left her two grandsons in the car while she popped into a paper shop. One was a baby and one was a toddler.

On her way back she got hit by a car and ended up being taken to hospital by ambulance. The two boys were left and it was a hot day, the baby died and the other little boy had burns.

Even if this story isn't true, I would never leave a baby alone in a car as you never know what might happen. Even if you didn't intend to be long you could get held up in a queue, and even if the car is locked, the windows could be smashed or the car could be hit by another while you weren't there.

There was a local woman in our area that left her child(2 year old), it was in the local paper and went and did her shop in Asda, thank god the staff at Asda acted on this, a member of staff stayed with the child and they called the police, this lady had gone 40 mins from the time the staff found the child left alone, so god only knows how long the child was left alone on the whole.

She got a police caution and she could not see what all the fuss was about!!

Grabbing milk/using ATM, is OK I reckon as long as you can see the car. Petrol station a bit greyish, I was never able to leave him so either filled up when DH home, with someone, at pay at pump, or got him out with me. Doing a BIG shop? Is really fucking stupid.

but in wanderingsheep's story- if the children had been with the woman- wouldn't they have got hit by the car too? so they might have died anyway

though I absolutely agree with not leaving a baby alone for more than a few minutes

Are you serious?
No I have never left my DD (now 17 months) even to get petrol, and as for a big shop...honestly, some people shouldn't be allowed to look after kids.

Stop making out that you don't have a choice - you have the same choices as everyone else ffs

i have started leaving ds when i pay for petrol since he was about 18m, completely illogical as hes more likely to get into trouble now than when he was tiny!
park facing the kiosk & look at the queue before i do though.

It's not illegal afaik. Whether you should do it or not depends on where and for how long I suppose.

Is this for real?

If shopping with ur child is such a big deal then ffs shop online.and you're a childminder?? If you were my childminder and I found out you did this with your own children I would remove my children immediatly and at the very least I would be ringing ofsted for advice. I don't care what the law is it's wrong to do that to a young child.

(talking about the OP not a quick petrol paying/milk buying episode)

Is it actually illegal? is there somewhere on the internet with a link to the actual law?

there is no specific law but it woud be seen as a form of neglect if baby was left unattended for any length of time or in a place where they are at risk.

there can be no formal law made as each situatiomn is different. it depends on childs age, the place in question, the length of the absence etc etc.

I remember at Uni a Lecturer's car spontaneously combusted in the car park. There must have been an electrical fault under the bonnet. Completely unforseeable.

Within 10 minutes of being parked there was smoke billowing from under the bonnet. The inside of the car was filled with fumes.

What if they'd been outside a shop and left the sleeping baby in the car to do a weekly shop?

That's why I don't do it, a bit of aggravation during a shop doesn't seem worth the risk to me. And that was a bloody volvo.

So many things can go wrong that would be harmless with you there.

"and that was a bloody volvo"

Yes, you just don't expect these things of a Volvo, do you? Usually such a reliable car. An Alfa Romeo, on the other hand - well, I've never felt you can trust them - shifty look in their headlamps, dontcha know?

OP, would you leave £1,000 in crisp new notes lying around in full sight in your car while you went off to do your weekly shop? No? I thought not

Popping in to pay for petrol at a local petrol station is one thing; leaving a small child for any more time than that is another matter entirely.

Imo, it's all about planning. I do quite a lot of miles (very few local family/friends) and I plan where I am going to get my petrol - I would never choose to fill up on a motorway for example. I will either fill up at a pay @ the pump or a local supermarket where the car is in full view all the time and where I never have to wait for more than a couple of minutes. DD rarely naps now, but when she used to fall asleep on the way to the supermarket, I used to take her on a nice drive around the countryside until I felt she'd had a decent sleep. And only then would I head back to the supermarket and do the shop - obviously taking her with me.

I think it's quite shocking the number of people who think it's ok to leave their small children alone in a car.

people are more likely to steal £1000 than they are a baby, surely. Bad analogy.

Don't think so actually

Surely your baby is going to be more valuable to you than any amount of money, so why would you choose to leave him/her alone in a car?

Agree with duel. Money is easy to pick up and steal. A baby would presumably not be, potentially noisy and strapped in. A baby might be the most precious thing to it's parents - it isn't to anyone else. If I was a theiving type I'd go for the cash every time

But why would you take any more risk with leaving your child than you would with leaving some cash? I really don't get that. Just because a thief is more likely to take the cash doesn't mean that a child wouldn't come to harm does it?

Tbh, all the things that could happen to a small child in a car over the 30/40 minutes its mother is doing the weekly shop probably won't happen: a paedophile is unlikely to spy your child all by itself and break into the car; the car is unlikely to be stolen; the car is unlikely to spontaneously combust; the car is unlikely to have another car being driven into it with force. However, the most probable thing to happen is for the child to wake up, bewildered and wonder where the heck its mother is and scream until it is sick. Nice.

Poledra

Not a volvo!

I think the point is that for all the things that may happen - likely or unlikely - they are all an unnecessary risk. The only reason you wouldn't take the children with you is because it is more difficult.

Not enough of a reason to risk it IMO