DS1 is a miserable moany umotivated child.

[BaronessBarbaraKingstanding]

I know I've said it, and it's horrible.

He's 9. He has just never been a jolly enthusiatic sort of child. He moans about doing everything and doesn't want to do anything except go on Club penguin or play football.

He hates school, is bright but does minimal work possisble and is falling behind at school.

He is very negative about himself, says he's useless at everything, won't try hard wth anything and avoids any activity which may require effort (guitar, swimming, school council etc).

He feels the whole world is against him and everything is unfair.

He has never been an affectionate child, has always felt akward giving hugs even as young child and finds it very hard to talk about how he feels (beyond the moaning.)

I don't know what to do.

I don't know why he's like this. He was a very much wnated loved baby, dh and I try to be as posotive as possible with him, but he's always been, well miserable.

Has anyone else had a child like this?

I worry for his future as his motivation to achieve at anything is nil. Exams etc are going to be a nightmare.

Dh plays sport with ds in the garden but not in teams anymore as he is injured.

He has started golf with DS in the past few weeks though, and ds is enthusiastic about this.

Dh startde guitar lessons with ds to learn together, but it got hard going as everytie they tried to practise together DS would make no attempt and show no interest,and Dh wold end up getting angry. So now Ds goes for guitar lessons alone and this seems to work better.

Look, I'm not only interested in his future or prospects, I love my boy and want him to be happy and am more interetsed in a rounded child than this thread may suggest.

but, I do also worry that a person so unmotivated will have difficulties in later life, and not fulfiling your potential can make adults unhappy longterm. I don't think worrying about your childs future eucation and employembt prospects is unusual or bad.

We do lots of things with him, he likes doing things with us, but Lynette was right, his self esteem is low, so he will not try. This worries and upsets me.

BBK, you've said yourself that he enjoys some things. He's just not motivated at the things you would like him to be....he's motivated with club penguin and football, no?

Perhaps he's not found his thing yet?

You have to tread many roads to find his interest? The girl who won the natural history apprenticeship with the BBC had no interest in school and at 15 fell inlove with the world of animals. What I'm trying to say is that lack of motivation at 9 may mean nothing.

I wasn't trying to imply that he wasn't fitting into your plans of career, etc.

maybe backing off for a while is the right approach.

What should we do about guitar? He wanted to learn, he wants to play the guitar but he doesn't want to practise and moans evry time we ask him to. Should we insist he practises? let him never practise? make him give up? (he insists he wants to carry on.)

homework is another flashpoint. the moaning, and prcratinating followed by shouting that occurs with every small bit of homework is really wearing. He woud quite happily not do any of the school work though if we left it.

Backing off completly seems hard to do. Parents have a role to ensure kids do the things they's rather not surely?

what about the computer?

If we banned it would he find other more interstng things to do? Or would he feel resentful and hard done by and even more unhappy?

10 mins a day guitar, has to fill in record book.

I don't discuss his future/jobs/lack of motivation with him, but do end up angry when he won't try at things and perpetually moans.

Ok re guitar practice and homework: what you have to do is establish a routine (if I keep saying this, I may adopt it myself with my children who also have instruments they enjoy learning but don't volunteer to practice, also have homework, and also enjoy the computer).

Sit down and lay down the rules: guitar practice must be done every day, homework preferably on the day he gets it and not left. If you can, sit down with him when he does his homework and show an interest in it. I don't know how musical you yourself are - fortunately I am reasonably musical myself and I rarely leave my children to just practice. I try to be within listening distance and comment on their play, help them when they are finding it hard, criticise if they are slacking, etc.

Only when guitar practice and homework have been done does he go on the computer.

If the rule is laid down and adhered to, he will soon get used to it. I have noticed the mother of my sons' friends has a strict thing whereby they have to do homework and chores until 4:30 but then they often ring up and are free to come round or invite my boys round to theirs. I am in awe of this as I am pretty laid back about allowing my children down time when they come home and only start insisting on the homework/practice after dinner.

Your boy really doesn't sound that different to an awful lot of other children, and in many ways he sounds a lot more motivated, eg at least he wants to play the guitar and asked to learn golf. I agree about relaxing your expectations until he is at secondary school.

agree with ppb - as I tried to explain in my previous post. I was an unmotivated child but I am very focused as an adult. Try not to imagine that life for him will always feel like this.

Well we both have busy social lives, do lot with the kids so not sure when we'd do soemthing else or what.

I do run, (ds keen to run with me when he can.)

tbh I think if you have the imptession we just sit in badgering DS about his career prospects you have gleaned a false view of our lives.

Dh just come home and we've decided to go out for a curry tonight with the kids which he is very excired about! (not sure this counts as a hobby though!)

Come on you're just waiting for your dcs to work so you can retire young, there's no shame in that.

My DS is 8 and like this and it is so frustrating, I reall do sympathise.

My DS doesn't like football, he doesn't want to do any after school activities. He likes computers and riding his bike and that's it.

Even if we go out for the day (Legoland for example), he would rather be at home.

He is food phobic, clothes phobic, shoe phobic, germ phobic and seems to suffer from anxiety as he worries about everything.

I do lose my patience, can't deny it, b'ut on the whole I try to be tolerant, encouraging and positive.

I seem to be on a permanant loop of "if you've not got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all/tell me what you enjoyed, not what you didn't/you don't actually know you don't like it if you don't try it".

bangs head against brick wall

And similarly, I can imagine my son getting depression/feeling suicidal/having OCD which is depressing in itself...

What was he like before he went to school? It sounds like school is a big part of the problem - maybe it just doesn't meet his needs and he's going through the motions - a bit like we feel as adults if we are doing a mundane, boring job every day....

My DS has recently started a new school that he picked out of the 2-3 choices on offer - he's so much happier in general. Now I can see he was just going through the motions at his old school....his zest has returned. I do wonder if this may be one of the keys in DS' case?

My ds1 [when younger] would be unenthusiastic about lots of things like writing,football,doing things for other people and I used to worry.

He is older now and still a little lazy but happy and successful.

He didn't like to be focused on too much ~ children don't ~ but at the same time he was happier when doing things[full time school,social events etc]than spending too much time alone.

So I would advise getting him to join things he is keen on[and not miss them],have certain committments he has to keep to,and a hobby like music is excellent for boys because it brings together friends,creativity,performing etc.

Also doing things with him ~ ds was reluctant at the time but still talks about unusual things we did with him like challenges,just meals out,holidays,daytrips[even if sulky at the time lol].

Now he is extremely interested in everything,very deep thinking and sensitive ~ still likes some things on his own terms but loves life.

Sorry bit garbled but ..think about guidance and support,trying new things as a family and being non judgemental but encouraging.

Is he bored with a lot of things?
ds1 would tire of things and grow out of the phase way before his contempories~still does this,is very innovative.
So broaden his horizons,give him the benefit of the doubt because what is inside will come out as he grows up ~ds had borderline dyslexia but is extremely bright and sometimes he just seemed to find everything so dull maybe your ds is the same.

So he does like hiking with you, and going out for a curry, and gold? And he doesn't like practising his guitar, and playing football at school? To be honest, he does sound fairly normal! Fine, maybe he's a bit of an Eeyore in the way he presents things, but that's not really a problem.

I've read a few of your posts elsewhere, and I get the impression that you're very sparky, active and have a responsible career. You're obviously very motivated - but of course you're much older than your DS. This is a bit of a guess, but do you have young colleagues of 18 or 22 or so working with you that you train up? Are you unconsciously thinking of your DS as one of your young colleagues, and thinking 'I wouldn't want to hire him'?

I think there's a lot of pressure on children nowadays to 'do' vast amounts of stuff, rather than being left alone to get on with mucking around and having overwhelming enthusiasms. I'm sure it is annoying, but if you leave him to get on with being himself, keep praising him and describing him in really positive ways to others, and support him where he wants support, he'll probably be fine.

I know that this might sound a bit random but have you thought about taking him to a cranial osteopath?

My DD was like this and responded brilliantly to treatment and has been all smiles since and a much more 'reasonable' person.

I'm not saying it's a magic cure but if there's anything out of sync with him physically then that wioll have an effect on his personality. It may not be obvious to him or you but the proof will be in the pudding. Definitely worth a go.

I was also feeling all out of sorts and irritable and baseline unwell but very low level. I had some treatment and felt instantly so much better - much more like me again. It may be something resulting from a traumatic birth / fright / fall or something apparently.

My DS who shows similar traits is only 3 so I can't offer much on the practical side. But I'm sure my DS definitely picks up on my frustration with him when he just does not even want to try stuff. So I try to keep my calm when there's a "no, don't wannu" situation.

I read somewhere (Biddulph? Faber&Mazlish?) this technique of pointing out every time he does show the trait that you want to improve. Maybe you can check that out.

I have to say, when I was younger I was quite bored by a lot of organised "activities".

I hated ballet, found brownies pretty dull (which is ironic as I am now a Guide Leader), found practising violin soul destroyingly boring too (and I was crap).

However, what I loved doing was making camps with my friends, going out walking, playing tennis with my friends (not competative), swimming, reading, exploring etc.

I think it's easy nowadays to think that childhood is for preparing you for the high powered job you'll be doing, but honestly, some of my best childhood memories are of playing in the sprinklers, making camps in the garden, hiding in trees etc.

So I guess I'm saying, don't stress, he'll probably be totally fine. As some of the others have said, maybe he just hasn't found his niche yet.

Do you think maybe he feels rather pressured to do well at things, and this is making him not want to even try?

In the summer holidays I started a reward chart for my kids (they were arguing like hell and I needed to take drastic action). The things I rewarded them for were:

• being kind
• listening to each other (and me!)
• reading a book

There were other things but you could use what things you want to address:

• guitar practice etc

My kids were rewarded with 10p per item but you could use 5/10 min Club Penguin sessions.

With regards to everything else, now that you've started the golf and guitar then see how those go but I would wait for his cues re new activities. It sounds like you do a lot as a family and are trying too hard (but no one can knock you for that!)

Bear in mind that musical instrument practice is often pretty boring (if necessary). Particularly when you've recently started and aren't very good. A lot of people start learning to play the guitar in particular because they want to be able to play recognisable songs on an electric guitar like [insert name of currently fashionable indie-rock-punk hero].

However, the reality is a spanish guitar and slogging through hours of scales/nursery rhymes - and some teachers can set really tedious practice stuff. All tough when your hands/fingers aren't very big and it sounds rubbish.

Depending on how long he's been learning, perhaps have a word with the teacher and ask how you can encourage him to play more at home (rather than just practice) - get him listening to some other types of guitar music to see what he likes and to show that there's loads of other stuff out there (flamenco, blues, some of the really show-offy electric guitar stuff (can't remember much, but Google Joe Satriani)). If you can then find simple versions of that kind of stuff and encourage him to play around rather than pracising for grade exams etc.

Also, worth bearing in mind that with musical insruments people often don't find what they really want to play until later in life - the important thing is knowing that you can pick up an instrument and get lessons and sound good. I was forced to learn the violin and piano as a child - but then picked up the guitar by myself at 11 and loved it. Still glad I can sort of play the piano and will proabably go back to it, but wouldn't go near a violin (and gave it all up at 18 when got more interested in booze and boys than band camp - hasn't done my career prospects any harm at all!)

Sorry for lengthy essay - just something I'm really passionate about!

Thought I would share this as read it on the bus on the way to work and it is relevant to your question; if you want to read the whole thing, it's called The Little Virtues by Natalia Ginzburg:

"It is not true that [our children] have a duty to do well at school for our sake and to give the best of their skills to studying. Once we have started them in their lessons, their duty is simply to go forward. If they wish to spend the best of their skills on things outside school, that is their business and we have no right to reproach them. If it seems they are wasting the best of their energies and skills lying on the sofa reading ridiculous novels or charging around a football pitch, then again we cannot know whether this is really a waste of energy and skill or whether tomorrow this too will bear fruit in some way that we have not yet suspected. Because there are an infinite number of possibilities open to the spirit."