Can you ever tell your kids that their dad is a tw*t?

[rickman]

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rickman in years to come, your kids will be able to see that their father put his dislike and resentment of their mother before his love for them. (You could actually point out to him that that's what he's doing, putting his need to get one over on you above his children's welfare. What a crap thing for a parent to do.)

I think it's quite important to remember that children get much of their sense of self-esteem and self-worth from their parents (as long as both parents are still involved - I don't think that's so true when one party is totally absent). Having a consistently negative message about one parent is extremely damaging for a child imo.

But then, your kids haven't had that, have they? You've slipped up once, totally understandably, and in future years your kids will understand that as well, and marvel that you didn't slip up more often. FGS, there are all sorts of situations where we make parenting mistakes, and our kids forgive us if the majority of our parenting is good enough. This is just another one of those situations.

I think it's helpful to remember the old catholic dictum "hate the sin, love the sinner". If someone behaves badly, it ought to be pointed out that their behaviour is bad (how else will children understand that some behaviour is unacceptable?) but not necessarily that the person is bad. Just as we try not to tell our children that they are naughty, but we let them know that the behaviour is naughty, the distinction is one which kids do understand and so the fact that Daddy's behaviour may be bad, doesn't make Daddy bad. It just depends on how bad Daddy's behaviour is, whether you choose to comment on it. For example, if Daddy is a murderer, I can't see how he can't be criticised if you want to impress on kids that that's wrong; but as your xp is just a shitty person, it's far more difficult to know what can be commented on or not. I personally find his lack of concern for his children's welfare morally abhorrent; and at some stage when they're old enough for their own sense of identity and self-worth not to be threatened by that, they need to know that that behaviour is not right (otherwise what's to stop them repeating it?). But while they're young and forming their own idea of self, I think you should try and steer clear of criticising him (but I know you already do).
Sorry, very long!

Sorry to hear you're going through this Rickman. I've got a complete arse of an ex as well. Does your ex badmouth you to your children? This is what mine has done for the last 6 years until recently I did relent and sat my 14 year old daughter down and told her my point of view on the whole situation (which involved being less than complimentary about her father's behaviour). I didn't like doing it. The advice about "hate the sin, love the sinner" is excellent.

Its sounds as though youre doing a cracking job with the kids as it is. Although my Mum didnt completely slag my dad off, I felt she overstepped the mark once or twice. I felt that it spoilt the 'daddy still loves you chat' we had when he went in the first place, not to mention leaving me very confused about it all at times.

Somewhere in the middle IMO, so for eg, when they overhear a row or telephone conversation you could go down the lines of 'well sometimes we dont always agree'. Depending on their age would depend on if you go into more detail (ie, because I think this and he thinks that), even then stick with the facts and they can draw their own conclusions.

Also, I would add that they will probably all have phases as to wether they want to be with him or even like him, that are probably nothing to do with the way you have dealt with things. I remember really piling on the drama and used the fact that they were seperated to get my own way and most of the time it didnt really bother me.

Richkman - hun - if you need support you got it - he is a selfish, selfless git

my MIL told my DH and BIL the're father was a t@@t, and bath mouthed him, and I think they felt bad for him, wasn't until DH was about 14/15 he realised everyhting his mum said was true and agreed but he had to make his own mind up, DH continued to tell BIL his views on their dad, but BIL wouldn't listen, he eventually followed suit, now none of them see their father. I do wonder if he hadn't of been moaned about they would have given him a better hearing so to speak?

either way DH refuses point blank to acknowledge his 'real' dad and says SD is his real dad.

in short your children will decided for them selves, and then u won't be made out to be the villan.

FWIW rickman, I think you need to keep your sanity above all else. Bottling everything up, pretending to your children that this man is an ace dad and husband sounds so against the truth, it could do your head in.

The effort of keeping this lie going could actuall be detrimental to your relationship with your children. If you are seething with resentment inside, (and if you are like me) it could make you bad tempered and distracted when you are with your children. Your children could pick up on this too and wonder what is really happening. Giving them an edited glimmer of the truth could release a lot of tension all round.

I haven't been in your situation. From an outsider's perspecitve I think it's better that you are matter of fact with your children sometimes, as in when you told them that their dad owes me some money and that is why things are a bit tight at the moment.

As caligula said, blame the behavour, not the person. There are times when I think my dh is being an a*se and if I feel wound up about it, I do try and convey why I am cross to my children, so they can understand my mood a bit better. But I don't know really if this is a helpful example as lots of other times, I will genuinely praise dh to my children, as I think he is being a good dad and husband.

Hope it helps to vent on here, anyway.

rickman
my parents split when i was 12, and my father is the worst father in the world, there is nothing to redeem him even when he was being sort of generous with love or gifts.
anyway my mum never called him a b in front of us and we never really knew just how upset and mad she was. until the last few years , with hindsight we can see quite clearly his behavioural pattern.

so try to let them decipher it for themselves they will learn. let them enjoy the fact that they have a dad, even though it upsets you.

we did, we were adamant to stay at weekends with him, but by sunday morn or even sat we would be phoning her to come and get us.

my dad was like your husband, my mum left with nothing but her sewing machine. she made our and her clothes while he got designer stuff. money for our education was in dribs and drabs - he just lived his life as a solo artist. and still does.

i know what youre going thru rickman, my xp pays nothing for the kids, slags me off constantly, does nothing positive for them but does plenty of showing them 18 cert violent films and the like (they are 6 and 4). when we went thru court he also cost me and my family £2500 in slashed tyres, glue in locks, brick thru window at my grandparents house (late at night - they were both in their 80s). he is scum.

i dont slag him off tho, and when the kids come back and he has been slagging me off they just seem glad to be home, they get very stressed out and upset by it.

a child psychologist told me that the kids are part of me and part of him - if i slag him off that means i am slagging off part of them and thats not fair.

i know its hard and i have slipped up occasionally but aslong as its not all the time i am sure they will get over it - maybe sit down and talk to them, tell them you are tired or something and that makes you a bit upset?

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didnt want to make that sound like im not angry and bitter about it some times - i am! but i have a lot of friends and family who are happy to bitch along with me, so i manage to get it out of my system. you do need an outlet so anytime you want to rant on here im sure lots of people will join in!

My situation is different in that I was in my 20s when my parents split. My dad did everything he could to make me turn against my mum, telling me some really awful things about her that still upset me to this day. My mum said nothing about my dad, even tried to defend his behaviour. Once I had got over the initial shock of what he told me (and it did make me dislike my mum for a while) I realised that the worst thing a parent can do is bad mouth the other one, it was so upsetting for me at 24 I can only begin to imagine the effect it would have on a smaller child.

Anyway, like I say, this is completely different to your situation really, just makes me believe that it really is best to avoid saying negative things and to let people work stuff out for themselves (and they invariably will as people on this thread have already said).

Sounds like you are doing a great job with your kids under trying circumstances and the odd slip up is very easily done I am sure.

Sorry if I've waffled on a tangent..

I agree with Cod.

When my parents split up if either one ever looked like they were about to slag the other off I'd go mad. My dad was so bitter with my mum at first that he would always find a way to make a dig when i saw him so I just stopped seeing him for a bit.

I can think what i like about my parents but noone else dare say a bad word about the people I love.

He may be a dick Rickmnan but I really think it would be better if you can work at trying to focus on the part of you that is happy that your kids are happy and have a good relationship with their dad. If he's a proper twat then they will work that out for themselves. Meanwhile my advice to you would be to bite your tounge, they won't thank you for anything else.

Sorry though, I understand it must be frustrating at the moment.

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I think I speak for everyone when I say I really don't think you sound like a cow, not at all. I think you sound like someone who is frustrated and wants to talk. I hope no-one has made you feel bad, it they did it wouldn't have been intentional. TC xx

rickman
you are a good mum and even better for doing it alone and trying to give your children the very best.
listen call your dh whatever you want to the wall, the phone your friends to mumsnet.
you are entitled to.

if it was me i think i'd compartmentalise him and the relationship with the children. god thats easier said than done i know. esp when you still have stress with him.

if he makes it hard for you, is there any way you can get the kids on your side for helping you, maybe they do already, but my mum use to be very clever about it, lie ins, cups of tea, let them see how busy you are and let them do nothing for you at all - reverse pyscholgy or something

this maybe all bladderdash but might spark something for you